◦ ARCHIVE INDEX — browse every page
Red's Army

Your Morning Dump… Where we explore the Jimmy Butler rumors

Fox Sports

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big story line. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

With most of the writers taking a day off to breathe before we launch into the July 1 free agency, we’re taking this morning in a different direction, sharing a Locked On Sports podcast network collaboration between us and the Locked on Bulls podcast host Sean Highkin. Jay King and Sean get together for about half an hour to break down the Jimmy Butler rumors and what was real vs. what was not.

Spoiler alert: A lot of it was never real. But I’ll let these guys explain it in Episode 41 of the Locked On Celtics Podcast with the Rainin’ J’s.

Some points made from the Chicago perspective:

  • The Bulls were looking to go with Derrick Rose OR Jimmy Butler… and it was a shock to get value for Rose. So now that they did, there wasn’t much pressure to move on from Butler.
  • If the Bulls really are looking to start over, then why are they looking to get starter-level players in return?
  • The Bulls have Butler, who is 26, under a great contract for a few more years, so offers like Ricky Rubio and Kris Dunn and some future picks (as was the hot rumor after the pick was made) doesn’t move the needle.
  • It’s REALLY interesting to hear how Jae Crowder is discussed from the Celtics and Bulls perspective.

As I said in yesterday’s podcast, the run-up to a trade often involves GM’s leaking stories to put pressure on their trade partners… and we all as fans have a tendency to take those rumors as gospel. We, in turn, start to have reactions like “I CAN’T BELIEVE DANNY TURNED THAT DEAL DOWN!” when that “deal” was never really an offer at all.

So my only words of caution are to be weary of putting too much stock in the specifics of the rumors. Who knows what players were actually involved in the discussions? Did Chicago ask for way too much? Did Danny low ball them? Who knows? What we do know is that the Celtics are trying to do something, but wanting to make a trade and actually making one are very different.

“We’ve been working really hard on trying to get a deal and do something significant, but we just haven’t been able to do it yet,” he said. “And it’s not because we’re not trying, it’s not because we’re turning down or we overvalue our players or any of that stuff. It’s because you need a partner. I’ve said this many times before: I tried three years to get KG before we got him. It just takes the right time and the right place and have a partner that wants to do a deal.”

And it’s hard to separate fiction from reality when it comes to the rumors… But Danny think you’d make the same decision he did.

“I think that it’s harder for fans. I think that I’m probably harder on myself than anybody else could be,” he said. “But I think it’s hard for fans because they don’t see and they don’t know what is real. There’s so much talk about it on TV shows and radio talk shows and so forth that they don’t see what’s really happening. I’m a firm believer that, if all of you were sitting in my office and listening to our conversations, there might be 5 or 10 percent disagreement if this deal is good or not, but 90 percent I’m pretty confident would say, ‘No, you can’t do that.’ ”

Unfortunately for Ainge, sharing the details of those talks would basically ensure he’ll never get a trade done in the future. He doesn’t need names of players leaked on either side to ruin any chemistry on his or other teams. We’ll just have to take him and Wyc at their words that these were never good deal for Boston.

We hope you enjoyed our breakdown from the Celtics and Bulls perspective.

The rest of the links: 

Herald: Isaiah Thomas always knew Jaylen Brown would be ideal for Boston

Like this Article? Share it!

  • Celtic Bro

    Now that we have brown, if we could put together a package around Crowder, 2 future firsts that don’t include a Brooklyn pick, a young big man, and one of our pg’s, I think that could make a good offer.
    Idea:
    Crowder + Yabusele + Rozier + 2018 Celtics First + 2019 Memphis First for Butler.

    • Curt Hays

      First, the Bulls wouldn’t go for it. Butler isn’t going to be traded. Second, trading Crowder for Butler is NOT a good idea. They play just about the same game except that Jae is a better leader and gets his teammates going better. The guys were teammates at Marquette. The whole point is to have them both play for Brad and build on that chemistry.

      • Dave

        That’s what I’ve been saying all along lol. That could have happened if in 2011 Butler was picked by us and 2012 if Crowder was picked by us as well.

  • art

    What’s extremely bothersome is that all of this talk and negotiation could have been avoided if the Celtics selected Butler over Jujuan Johnson and Marshon Brooks in the 2011 NBA Draft. Easier said than done but that’s why Danny gets paid the big bucks isn’t it?

    • Dave

      Apparently he loved Isaiah Thomas before the draft too so it makes me scratch my hand that he didn’t pick him.

      In regards to Jimmy, this is why I hate when teams try to trade for players they could have gotten in the draft, you end up giving up more to get them and the other team will just be reaping the benefits. Even Jimmy thought the C’s were gonna pick him too, having him and signing Posey for insurance definitely would have helped in the 2012 ECF’s.

      • art

        Agree totally. Draft wisely. It’s imperative if you’re going to make it to the top. What’s really weird is that of the 20 players that the C’s have missed drafting in the RedsLoveChild list above, about half have either played with the Celtics or have been the subject of trade talks.

  • jrleftfoot

    Butler isn`t going anywhere now that Rose has been traded, The 2011 draft, really? How many other teams had the chance to draft Butler? Hindsight is an exact science.

    • art

      What turns your team into a great team is that you have to be smarter than all the others plain and simple. Danny Ainge is a smart guy supposedly. He needs to outsmart other teams a little more often. And no partners are required when selecting players in a draft so that excuse is out the window.

      • RedsLoveChild

        That`s what I`m saying!
        The system forces you to draft intelligently or you die as a franchise. There is no other way to build or obtain great talent.

        Ainge badly blows every draft {not just 2011}. He did it again last week by drafting Brown {passing on Hield}. There`s a better chance that Bentil will succeed than Brown. Brown is a slightly taller Marcus Smart, so good luck with that!

        There are only 2 super valuable Brooklyn picks left, now that the first was most likely wasted on Brown.

        Meanwhile Ainge gets a lifetime free pass because mentally challenged Celtic Nation gives him unlimited devotion. They`ve been duped into thinking Ainge is so “crafty, cagey, scrappy, clever, tenacious, cold blooded calculating”…when his draft record screams the opposite is true!

        • art

          There was an obvious mistake in 2011 because of what was chosen instead of Jimmy Butler. Could you name other draft mistakes that have been made? For example, you’ve criticized the selection of Marcus Smart in 2014 but nobody picked after him is better IMHO. And frankly, even if James Young is a bust, there was nobody that was good picked after him. Your arguments have to include players that were passed on that were better than the Celtics pick please.

          • Curt Hays

            Fair warning before @disqus_KXUUxqnj5U:disqus responds. He has witnessed every single draft pick going almost all the way back to Chuck Cooper. 🙂 He’ll have examples.

          • RedsLoveChild

            Oh, long before Cooper.

            I was the one who told Dr. Naismith…”Jimmy, cut a hole in the bottom of the peach basket. It will speed up the game.”

          • Curt Hays

            I’ve been meaning to ask, was Press Maravich as infatuated with basketball before WWII as the biographers would have us believe?

          • RedsLoveChild

            Looking back, I recall Press being even more obsessed with hoops than has been reported.

            Poor Petey….Press worked that little kid 24/7/365 to perfect his skills, when all he wanted to do was study and play chess.

          • Curt Hays

            It isn’t just that Smart isn’t an all star. He obviously succeeds at what he’s good at. It’s the way he fits with the team’s needs, or doesn’t fit.

            We need inside presence and scoring.

            Players drafted after Smart:

            Elfrid Payton – better player, slightly
            Julius Randle – better player and fits the needs of Boston
            Zach LaVine – better all around
            Rodney Hood – better all around
            Nikola Jokic – fits our needs

            That’s just one year.

          • art

            Well, I don’t think any on that list are significantly better, if at all, and it may be a little too early to judge also. I wouldn’t trade Marcus for any of ’em at this point.

          • Curt Hays

            Noted, and if I was always right about basketball, I would be getting paid to manage a team.

            However, LaVine is significantly better. Hood has been significantly better. Julius Randle and Jokic both would have given us more Wins. Randle will be far better in the end.

          • RedsLoveChild

            If they were unable to trade away the 6th pick in a fairly weak 2014 draft, Randle was the obvious choice.

            2012—Melo over Crowder/Middleton/Draymond Green
            2011–Brooks over Butler, Parsons
            2008–Giddens over DeAndre Jordan/Dragic/Asik/Chalmers
            2007–Pruitt over Gasol
            2006–Foye {Telfair} over Kyle Lowry
            2005–Gerald Green/Gomes over David Lee/Bass/Amir Johnson/Gortat/ M Ellis
            2003–Troy Bell over David West/B Diaw/Korver

          • Curt Hays

            2008…wtf. Seriously. Wtf.

          • art

            2003-I think they were after Marcus Banks, but yeah, not good
            There have been quite a few misses over the years. I concur. The front office and Danny just have to be better. But in fairness, there should be a list of hits too.

          • RedsLoveChild

            True, he had his sights set on Banks…it was DA`s first ever draft pick, and it was a sign that he is in love with players who are short, stocky, and lack basketball skills.

            List of hits? His picks never exceed expectations, unless you perhaps want to point to AB {who was highly regarded in college} or Jefferson.

          • art

            2003: Kendrick Perkins
            2004: Tony Allen and Delonte West in addition to Jefferson.
            2006: Rajon Rondo in a trade with Phoenix
            2007: Used Jeff Green pick to obtain Ray Allen
            2010: Bradley
            2012: Sullinger
            2013: Olynyk
            2014: Smart (time will tell)

          • RedsLoveChild

            50/50?
            I would say that you`re being very generous!

            Perk was good as long as he played along side of KG, otherwise lousy…Tony Allen was good defensively, unpredictable offensively…Rondo was not drafted by Ainge, as you stated…Delonte, Sully, Olynuk, Smart are “marginal” players, not championship calibre guys.

          • art

            Phoenix picked Rondo for Ainge. So to me it was his choice and draft pick.

          • Don J

            Rodney Hood was a better choice over James Young back then and still would be now. There was the first of the “precious” Brooklyn picks that was most likely wasted. We pick these young guys and don’t let them develop. A point many miss is that you cannot both develop the young talent and try and win at the same time.

  • art

    If the Jaylen Brown pick is unsuccessful, I would say it’s time for a new GM. And it hurts me to say that.