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Red's Army

Your Morning Dump… Where 4-year college players are cool again

denzel valentine

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big story line. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

Four-year college players are en vogue again, especially since players such as Draymond Green were bypassed in the first round primarily because of their age. Green has turned into a premier defender and All-Star player, and fellow Michigan State standout Denzel Valentine will likely see his stock rise because of Green’s success.

[…] “I thank [Green] every day,” said Valentine, who is considered a combo guard. “He’s doing his thing. He’s definitely making it easier for me. He’s paving the way. He says that all the time. He worked and he was picked 35 and had to do it the hard way, and he’s paving the way for guys like me and guys that fit my mold.”

Boston Globe

Once upon a time, coming out of school early meant skipping your senior year. The 1984 draft (a.k.a the Michael Jordan draft) featured six juniors, one international player, and 40 seniors through the first two rounds (they had more than two back then).

A lot has changed over time, and now staying in school for four years gets the “well, why weren’t you good enough to leave school earlier?” questions. Teams now want to take those 19th, 20th, and 21st years of life to cheaply vet players under rookies deals and get them used to the NBA grind. By the time they turn 22, teams will want to make an investment decision with them.

But Buddy Hield, for example, will turn 23 two months into his rookie season, He’s only three years younger than Avery Bradley… and it feels like Bradley has been in the league forever. By the time teams figure out if he’s really going to be an NBA player, he’ll be approaching his athletic prime.

On the flip side, though, college seniors are coming into the league with a higher maturity level. They’ve done a lot of growing up.. they’ve actually gone to classes and worked at something other than just basketball. They’re not on the Ben Simmons plan of going through the motions for one semester and then basically dropping out after the basketball season ends. So what if it took them four years to get their game to the NBA level? If they’re there now, that’s really all that matters.

So holding the four years of school against a player doesn’t make much sense. I get the apprehension nowadays of drafting an almost 23 year old when you’re putting a long-term plan together, but in the end, good is good. If it took Draymond Green to hammer that point home with some people, then those people aren’t really in the best mindset to make decisions. I get going for the younger guy if you feel the talent level is even, but in the end, it’s always about the talent.

Page 2: LeFlop James

Every post about flop comes with the obvious statement “yes I know we have Marcus Smart” but this one is too good not to share.

Yes, that was his own teammate that hit him. He flew across the court like he was kicked like this

This is a big reason why people hate LeBron. He’s too good for this crap… but there he is… flopping away.

The rest of the links

Herald: A giant jigsaw puzzle for Celtics  | Globe: Does technology really make games better? |  CSNNE: Don’t forget… the Celtics are loaded with picks other than no. 3  |  WEEI: Austin Ainge trying to find gems at 16, 23, Ainge gets “bored” at workouts

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  • zippittyay

    Yes, we need players that can help us NOW, whether it be via trade or draft. We got all the youth we can use.

    • Socrates Dancestoo

      Agreed, if DA can make something legit happen with that 3rd pick & any others at this point, do it. There will be something. I honestly don’t think we were ever going to actually draft anyone, regardless of if we won the lottery or not. I like Simmons and Ingram enough, but as you alluded to, we need help NOW. Once he realized the Nets pick this year would be lottery, I think he was immediately planning a Ray Allen-KG scenario again. Trade the lottery pick and whatever else needed to land great player via trade, and go for gold in FA, though we traded for both RA & KG. A lot needs to go right, but that’s the case in any scenario, whether you draft a player, sign them, re-sign them, trade them, whatever. We, at least, have enough assets to have multiple plans. Now we hope for the best.

  • Curtis Monroe

    One of the reasons RJ Hunter came out as a Junior was because NBA teams didn’t value older players as much. I always thought he would have been better served by staying in school and working on his strength there. Of course the Celtic’s facilities are much better than GSU’s so it may be a wash.

    At least Marcus Smart doesn’t flop when his own player hits him.

  • Brandon

    I want nothing to do with this 3rd pick. I don’t want Hield, Dunn or Bender. I don’t get the infatuation with Bender as he looks like one of those Euro-busts that come a dime a dozen. You can’t draft Porzingis twice. Sorry. Secondly, we need shooting. Shooting. Shooting. Shooting. Shooting. Did I mention shooting? Look at the last series with Atlanta. I’m sick and tired of seeing the Celtics throw up more and more bricks and clanks than they do anything else.

    One of the reasons the Lakers were dominant throughout the years of the late 90s and early 2000s (and during the Big Three Era) was through Free Agency and smart trades. It’s time we start using the glut of picks we have in addition to using the money we have to pay a top-tier star.

    I’ve been of the opinion for about three years that Danny has been waiting for Kevin Durant. He’s hitting free agency, but I’m afraid he’ll see the grass is greener with OKC or even with GSW and won’t even consider coming to Boston. Remember, a lot of players speak fondly of our fans and think it’s a great place to play. But there’s a problem, they never seem to want to come here. Remember the Kevin Love era (short as it was). Remember DeMarcus Cousins (who won’t leave Sacramento now) and this talk about a possible trade for Jimmy Butler and/or Paul George (ain’t happening).

    Also, it’s hard to find stars in a league in which stars seem to want to play with each other as opposed to playing against one another. I don’t know. A star is what is needed in this league to succeed. It’s true you can find them in the draft, but in a two player draft in which we’ll pick third, I want no part of it.

    Also, I would imagine that Brad Stevens will start to look to win now. He didn’t come to Boston to coach mediocre players for 1st round exists in the East Playoffs. And I wouldn’t blame him if he left us in the next two years to coach somewhere else or go back to the college ranks. It’s gotta be infuriating for fans to see Billy Donovan in the WCF and Brad Stevens still stuck in mediocre hell. It also helps when you inherit Durant and Westbrook.

    Also, if Danny Ainge is dead-set on using this pick, then he ought to find some shooting point-foward type and no more point guards who can’t shoot. We’ve got Smart and Rozier already (I still don’t get the Rozier move). I’m sick of hearing “But he’s a great defensive player.” We need shooting! Look at where the league is going. OKC, GSW, Cavs, etc.

    There’s a lot we need to do in the off season. I fear we’re running out of time because Stevens may want to leave in two years if we’re stuck in a mediocre state of being a la Pacers.

    One last thing, we need shooting!!!!!!!!!

    • Socrates Dancestoo

      Shooting!!!!!!!! Have you ever watched Buddy Hield? Your infatuation with shooting(which I agree we need shooting) contradicts your lack of desire to even consider Hield. Personally, I don’t want Hield at 3, granted, but 5-7 maybe. Point being, Hield can shoot the lights out. Watch some video and do some reading on Hield, you won’t find many that outwork him. He’s progressed each year in college because of this, and with NBA coaching and training this trend should continue. I’m guessing 78-79 out of 80 3’s in a session isn’t shooting? 49 in a row? Think of Steph Curry at Davidson. His progression has happened before our eyes over years(which NO ONE predicted-Danny could have godfathered GS for Curry with Rondo and other bait at one point). Wasn’t overnight. I’m not saying Hield = Curry, but his age, work ethic, gorgeous shot, and current skill give him a lot of upside. A lot of time to refine other skills. He puts in the time. Shooting!!!!!!!!

    • Socrates Dancestoo

      Mind you, my comment was solely in regards to talk on the 3rd pick and shooting, and not the overall well-being of the team.

  • adam

    I’m hoping Philly takes Hield with number 1. He has intangibles they need; Competitiveness, discipline, etc. They lack that with Embiid and Okafor, why would they want to risk that with either of Ingram, or Simmons.