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The Celtics Need More Out of Jeff Green

Geoffrey Simpson November 17, 2014 Celtics News, Jeff Green 24 Comments

green v lebronIf there was a list of the top 5 most confounding players in the NBA, Jeff Green would surely be on it. He often shows flashes of greatness that leave fans wanting more, like his 43 point performance against LeBron and the Heat a couple of years back. In that game, Green showed the skill and assertiveness that had Boston fans believing they had a go-to guy once the Pierce and Garnett era ended. Green got the chance to be the go-to guy last year and again showed flashes of greatness, but his weaknesses were also highlighted throughout the year.

The problem with Green’s 43 point performance, similar to the Celtics problem Friday night, is that LeBron James went for 37 points and 12 assists.

Now, LeBron is the best basketball player in the world. He went for a season high 41 points Friday night against the Cs, 10 of which came during the 4th quarter comeback effort. There isn’t a guy in the league who can guard him. But if you were to build a prototype of a defender to guard LeBron, it would probably be a guy just like Jeff Green. He’s 6’9, is reasonably strong, has long arms, and is very athletic. The mix of athleticism and strength gives Green the tools to be very good wing defender.

But Green struggles against quicker, athletic wings. James was able to get whatever he wanted in the 4th quarter Friday night, including two late drives where he muscled Green out-of-the-way and made layups.

It may seem odd to ask more from a player who is averaging a career high 18.9 points per game to start the season, but the Celtics need more from Jeff Green. Let’s take a look at some numbers.

What Do the Numbers Tell Us?

Green’s 18.9 points per game is great, but he is only shooting 43% from the floor and 33% from 3. And while 8 games may be a small sample size, Green only shot 41% from the floor last year and only 44% for his career. This is a low number considering that Green is an athletic wing who can both attack the basket and knock down open shots. Green is only averaging 4.1 free throw attempts per game after averaging a similar 4.3 last year. For a player of Green’s size and strength, the Celtics should be able to isolate him in the mid post area, similar to how they isolated Paul Pierce, and allow Green to attack and get to the foul line. But Green does not excel at getting to the foul line, which is much of the reason why he has failed to be a consistent scorer for the majority of his career. The Celtics have made it a point to give Green mid post touches to start the season, but almost all of those possessions end in Green taking a fall away jump shot, rather than using his athletic ability to get to the rim and the foul line. Green’s poor ball handling also contributes to his low free throw totals.

Looking at some of the deeper stats, the Celtics appear to be better off with Green on the bench than on the court. So far this season, the Celtics offensive rating with Green on the court is +0.7, or relatively the same as when Green is off the court. Their defensive rating, however, is -3.2, giving Green a net rating of -2.5. Looking back to last season (larger sample size) the Celtics offensive rating was -3.8 with Green on the court and their defensive rating was -2 with Green, for a net rating of -5.8. Even going back to the 2012-13 season, Green’s net rating is -1.2. The Celtics, over the past two seasons and the first 8 games of this season, have consistently been better when Jeff Green is on the bench.

The defensive numbers stand out in particular, especially over a large sample size. Green struggles with quicker small forwards and guarding shooters coming off of screens. He is also a below average help defender. For a guy who has all the tools to be successful on the defensive end, he has consistently had a negative impact on that end of the floor.

Does He Fit?

While Jeff Green is still a talented offensive player, it is no secret that he would be a better fit as a 3rd or 4th option for a contending team rather than Boston’s number 1 option. He would fit in well with a team who could use him either as a small forward or a power forward who could space the floor in small ball lineups. He would be an added scoring punch while not being expected to put up close to 20 every night the way he is expected to in Boston.

Should the Celtics Trade Jeff Green?

In my opinion, yes, they should. Green has a player option for next season, and while it’s not clear whether or not Green plans to opt out, the Celtics probably would not want to retain his services even if he did. If Green opts out, it is because he believes he can earn more than 9.2 million he will make if he opts in. At 28 years old, the Celtics would likely have to commit over 10 million a year for multiple years, possibly even 3 or 4, to get Green to come back. Why should the Celtics spend that money when the team has been more effective with Green on the bench? The money could be better spent on a rim protector, or a wing that can knock down 3’s at a high rate and play solid defense.

If Green were to accept his player option and come back to Boston, the Celtics lose out on an extra 9.2 million in cap space, which they may need to sign an impact player or two. If the Cs are able to bring back Rajon Rondo, this extra cap space could be used to bring in a talented big man to pair with him. The cap space this offseason is more valuable than another year of a negative net on court rating.

Green still has decent value, especially to a contending team looking to add flexibility at the wing position. I would trade him to Indiana for Luis Scola’s expiring contract and Ian Mahinmi. The Celtics would clear about 5 million in cap space at the end of the year and would also be able to see what their defense looks like with a rim protector in the middle. I would trade him to Memphis for Tayshaun Prince’s expiring deal and one of their younger players along with a draft pick, or Washington for a couple of expiring contracts and a draft pick. This may seem like a low return for a guy who is currently averaging 18.9 points per game, but if the Celtics were able to get guaranteed cap space and a younger player with some potential I think they should pull the trigger. As we move closer to the deadline, many teams will covet a player like Green to help them make a playoff push, and Danny Ainge could possibly squeeze some more value out of a deal.

Moving Green by the deadline would also allow the Celtics to play James Young more minutes on a nightly basis come the second half of the season. As fans, sometimes we get attached to a player we like and fail to see the larger picture. The Celtics have been a better team with Jeff Green on the bench the past two seasons, and the trend has continued this year as well. A trade would benefit both the Celtics and Jeff Green in the long run.

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  • Dave

    Same old song and dance, I wouldn’t mind if they trade Jeff back to the Thunder for Perk haha, especially with how depleted their team is right now.

    • the truth

      dave ure right,they should trade him back, the trade of jeff for perk,killed any chance of us 3 peating,and his i dont care i show up when i want attidude is not what red auerbach taught. the celtics should release him so he can leave the league

  • http://www.thegainescollective.com/ Kendra Gaines

    yea. jeff is doing a lot better this year, so let’s request a ton more out of him!

    what about we need better defense out of Avery Bradley?
    we need better execution from Bass?
    how about better consistency from Sully?

    You might as well be asking Rondo for more assists and rebounds in this article. I don’t get it.

    • Geoff Simpson

      Kendra, I hear what you’re saying. I’d like to see more out of some of the other guys as well especially Bradley.

      My point with this article is simply that Green isn’t a good fit with the Celtics, or any team where he would be required to be the number 1 option. While he may put up decent scoring numbers, he’s not doing so in an efficient way. To me, he epitomizes why the Celtics struggle on offense sometimes: Settling for too many jumpshots and not attacking the rim enough.

      On top of that he plays below average defense and has for many years now. The numbers I referenced show that the Celtics are better off with him not on the floor.

      • http://www.thegainescollective.com/ Kendra Gaines

        he’s not being utilized as a #1 option here, yet again. if anything, his usage is down and his numbers are up. so what are you saying? i agree that he takes too many 3s (i happen to like his midrange), but the Cs as a team aren’t taking any excessive amount of 3s a team. If anyone is killing us on that, that’s going to be your Jared Sullingers and Rajon Rondo’s killing us on those clanks.

        • Geoff Simpson

          First, I’d say a team who is attempting the 5th most 3 pointers per game yet is ranked 28th in 3 point percentage is definitely taking too many 3s per game. Green is one of the main culprits of this for sure. He shoots the most 3s per game on the team, and doesn’t make them at all that high of a rate. Again, this is a team issue, but it is without a doubt a Jeff Green issue as well.

          If the Celtics have a number 1 option, which may not be as clear as most teams because the team is very balanced, then it is Jeff Green. but let’s say for the sake of argument that Green isn’t the number 1 option. A player who averages close to 20ppg on 43% shooting is not an overly productive offensive player to me, regardless. I think Green’s on/off statistics show this. The Celtics are relatively the same offensively with Green on the floor as they are with him off (except for last year when they were almost 4 points per 100 worse with him on the floor).

          While the Celtics aren’t playing Green for his defense, as you mentioned, his offense does not outweigh the below average defense he has been playing, and this trend is consistent since Green arrived in Boston, which is a large sample size. The Celtics have been better off with Jeff Green on the bench.

          I think you make a great point in saying he should be playing more at the 4. I think he’s better suited for this position both offensively and defensively. But I wouldn’t expect his rebound numbers to go up at a consistent rate. His numbers match up with what he’s done over his career. Despite his size and leaping ability, Green is not a very good rebounder. Which means he’ll only be used at the 4 sparingly. This also takes minutes away from players who have been productive like Sullinger, Olynyk, and Zeller.

          Jeff Green is near the top of the list of issues for me, as he contributes to the Cs problems on both ends of the court. Like you, Bradley is near the top of that list for me as well. The fact that Green would fit better with another team means we may be able to get value for him and still clear cap space to use on a player who would help the team more.

      • Rick Rice

        Why wouldn’t it let me give you a down arrow. Jeff Greene does not play below average defense! Much rather see him in ‘Green” than an opposing teams colors. Jeff is good! You are right on KENDRA!

  • swissflix

    With the rise of Klynyk and Sully the pressure is off of Green to score all the time. He is playing his best ball so far. And he did a good job on James, to be fair. If all goes well this team will be really good in two years and then he’ll be a nice 3rd or 4th option. His contract is a different story, of course.

    • Geoff Simpson

      Lebron had 41 on 16/27 shooting…..

      • swissflix

        Lebron can do that against anyone…..

  • adam

    We know Jeff has Potential (the dreaded P word) but he has been in this league for a couple years now. This is probably the player he is going to be. He has been doing better this year, then lets have this same conversation in February before all-star break.

  • Rick Rice

    Can’t score if you don’t have the ball! Need to get him the ball more and although AB shoots pretty well he doesn’t need to think he has to shoot every single time he gets the ball. Everyone struggles defensively against LB and lastly it was the defense against opposing guards that lost the Toronto and Cleveland games NOT the defense of Jeff Green! Ab needs to focus on his defense more and stay out of early foul trouble making stupid attempts trying to steal the ball.

    • Geoff Simpson

      Agree with you completely on AB Rick. No question.

      Green already takes the most shots on the team (15.4 shots per game) and is tied for lowest field goal percentage on the team among the players who have played at least 7 games. How much more do you want him to shoot?

      • KWAPT

        Jeff heard you tonight. Now expect 3 pts, 9 pts & 8 pts for the next 3 games.

        • Geoff Simpson

          He looked great last night. Cs did a nice job getting him the ball in positions where he could score and Jeff was not settling. I hope this is a sign of things to come

  • Jester00

    News flash Jeff Green overrated and I would trade him for a bag off balls draft picks and Keith Van Horn

  • dontevertreadonme

    greens a bum. kid just have the killer instinct and drive like the great players do. hes waaay too content with being irrelevant and hanging out on the 3 point line. not saying hes not a good piece. you need guys like jeff green but you cant have high expectations for him. avery bradley same thing, hes not a main piece of any team…there role players. bradleys a bench player and he’ll probably make a career out of being a corner jump shooting kid that plays decent defense even though hes been getting scorched lately. idk wtf all I know is this team needs help

  • GoKingsGoCeltsGoTigersGoNiners

    Very insightful article. I hope we can move green soon — the celt’s are better without him.

  • CoolRapQuote

    Kwapt and some other people have already tried to put this discussion to rest in the past two years. Anything being said about this guy in any way shape or form is such an eye roller now. Jeff Green is what he is; a good player who can occasionally be really good(not great). Does it shock anyone when he scores 40+ when LeBron is guarding him? No. Does it shock anyone when the Corey Maggettes of the league hold him to 6 points? No. cant wait to watch Marcus smart when he gets back. His first handful of games were very entertaining. His hustle is well worth the price of League Pass by itself.

  • CoolRapQuote

    Jeff Green has been in the league for 7 years. It’ll be four seasons as a Celtic come trade deadline.

  • Brad P

    We got good Jeff tonight!

  • bill_nair

    This horse cant be beat enough.

  • wil

    All Green has is his athleticism. He sucks at dribbling and posting up. But atleast hes been stepping his game up.

    I think we need Sully to score more in bunches that green.

  • Drew R

    Why would anyone trade their leading scorer so they could get Fab Melo Jr. In the lineup? James Young has done nothing to indicate he deserves to play at all. Jeff Green might not be an all star but he is clearly a starter in this league. James Young is a 19 year old d-leaguer.