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Your Morning Dump… Where the market for Kevin Love is drying up

Chuck - Red's Army July 12, 2014 Brandon Bass, Celtics News, Rumors, The Morning Dump 35 Comments

Love1

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big storyline. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump. 

The more the process plays out, the more the Wolves’ near-term options seem to be dwindling. The Cavaliers are said to be willing to consider a deal for Love, but No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins has been assured he would not be included in any such trade, a source told Sporting News. That leaves the Timberwolves to pick over the likes of forward Anthony Bennett (last year’s top pick) and guard Dion Waiters.

That could leave Saunders rather disappointed in the market for Love, even as he figures to become the best available asset on the market.

And it could be beneficial two the two teams who have been most active in the Love market — Boston and Golden State. While a source said recently that the Timberwolves and Warriors have moved on from their talks about Love, which hinged on Golden State including guard Klay Thompson, those talks can easily be revived at any point this summer if the market for Love continues to be dry.

Also, the Celtics remain hopeful of using its raft of draft picks to help the team lure Saunders into a deal. Boston acquired a pick from the Cavaliers  to facilitate the trade that cleared room for James this week, and now could have as many as nine first-round picks in the next four drafts.

Sporting News

Fret not, Celtics fans. Despite all the assumptions that Love is destined for Cleveland, the Celtics still have a chance.

Let’s make one thing clear, if Cleveland wants Love they can get him. And he’s reportedly willing to resign there long term.

But it doesn’t appear that Wiggins is on the market. And Chris Broussard doesn’t expect Dion Waiters to be included either. (Yes, I’ll reference Broussard when his claims fit my point).

Cleveland may chose to enter the season with its young roster and a few veterans to compliment LeBron. And we should hope that they race out to a 30-3 start. Same goes for Golden State. GMs will be less likely to upset their rotation – even for a player like Love – if their teams are playing exceptionally well.

And… we need to have Marcus Smart, Jared Sullinger and Kelly Olynyk playing well and healthy.

It may sound like the perfect storm, but I also believe it’s far from a long shot.

On Page 2, the Celtics nearly had a taker for Brandon Bass.

Yeah, James held up NBA business for 11 days while he decided his future. Teams were angry. Some had assets that evaporated during the wait, including the Warriors, who considered Brandon Bass and other names in exchange for a trade exception that expired yesterday at midnight.

Grantland

Golden State had a $9.8 million TPE that went poof on Thursday at midnight. The Warriors reported interest in Bass goes back to the trade deadline. It appears they want someone who can play behind David Lee and are not happy with Marreese Speights.

One other free agent note, the Hawks have signed guard Kent Bazemore. I assume the Celtics interest in Bazemore waned once they acquired Marcus Thornton.

And finally, some Heat fans I can respect:

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The rest of the links:

ESPN Boston – Smart wraps up summer league on high note | Herald – Impressions made will determine who stays | Globe – Smart shines in summer league

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  • frickenWaaaltah

    The Rockets will be getting at least one trade exception, maybe two. They’ll get one for the Jeremy Lin to LA deal, and they’ll get another for the Omer Asik to the Pelicans deal if they still do that one. Each would be ~8.5 mil.

    Also consider…Vince Carter just signed with Memphis, instead of at least waiting to see if Dallas got Chandler Parsons or not. So maybe Vince and his agent figure Houston will let Parsons go?

    That means they would be after a small forward; Trevor Ariza has been called ‘everybody’s plan b’ this offseason. The Rockets could go for Ariza…or Jeff Green. Or it could create a three-way merry go round where the Rockets get Ariza, the Wiz get Jeff Green, and the Celtics get a trade exception.

    If they did something like that, I would guess that it’d be a good idea to wait till later in the month, so that the trade exception will have more time to be of use next summer. I.e. if they did a deal like that today, the exception would expire July 12th 2015…if they did a deal like that this coming July 31st, the trade exception would expire July 31st, 2015.

  • frickenWaaaltah

    The C’s might also talk the Rockets into skipping the whole exception thing and just trading Asik for Jeff Green. I’d assume Danny and co would want Asik to commit to an extension to do that.

    I’m on the fence about Asik because of his offense, but I know he’s got plenty of fans here. Sorry Pelly’s, you snooze you lose, eh?

  • frickenWaaaltah

    Or…trading Jeff to the Rockets for an ~8.5 mil exception might help the C’s get Kevin Love.

    The Wolves would then get an ~8.5 mil exception as part of the deal, and only have to take back like ~7-8 mil in salary. They might even want Bass because his deal expires in summer 2015, and it’s close but I think with an 8.5 mil exception, Bass alone would be all the salary Minnesota would have to take back.

    That way, if they were really serious about not liking Boston’s ‘role players’ they can load up on draft picks, rather than roster spots for guys they aren’t thrilled about. They’d still have some flexibility to get another player they’d want from somewhere between now and next July with their shiny new trade exception, and they can reduce total salary in the mean time, while avoiding commitments beyond next summer.

  • KGino

    When the goin’ gets tough, Lebron gets goin’.

    • LA Flake

      I logged in just to upvote this comment.

      • Curt Hays

        Then you must have been the 1 Guest Vote who upvoted my “trade Green for KG” comment. :-)

        • Mike C

          Nope, that was me. Bird & KG, my two favorite players of all time.

  • RedsLoveChild

    If LeBron James can “right a wrong” by returning to Cleveland….why can`t Danny Ainge right a far more catastrophic wrong by doing whatever is humanly possible to get rid of one Jeffrey Lynn Green?

    The soul crushing, mind numbing despair and gloom that descended upon the TD Garden on Feb. 24, 2011, will only be lifted when this utterly useless p.o.s. is no longer stealing $9M per from the Celtics, not to mention our hopes and dreams.

    C`mon, Mr. GM……Ready, Ainge, Fire!

    • Curt Hays

      Trade Green for KG. The end. At least I’d want to watch that.

      • RedsLoveChild

        Whatever the hell it takes to dispose of Green…I totally approve!

      • forever_green

        This would guarantee a Pierce return and I’d want to watch that.

    • Brad P

      I hate a lot of contracts on the Celtics right now, Jeff Green included, but seeing players like Hayward and Bosh getting massive, fat, juicy contracts makes me hate ours a bit less

  • RedHead617

    This is insane. Kevin Love, Rondo, and Green are absolutely nothing compared to LeBron, Kyrie, Wiggins & Co. If the goal is to max out at 45-50 wins and a second round exit then I can totally understand the excitement over trading our future to avoid another long-term lottery piece in 2015.
    We don’t need Love, he won’t get us past LeBron, and he knows it. If he were willing to resign in Boston then we’d know it by now. Don’t be impatient and keep a championship goal in mind; you may not enjoy losing in 2015 but it’s the only way to add talent quickly enough to get over the hump.

    • Curt Hays

      There’s no way we can ever beat LeBron. We should just not have a team. We should quit. You’re a great fan.

      • RedHead617

        Herein lies the difference between an emotional fan and an educated shareholder: Hope isn’t a strategy. Where you apparently see a team that should do everything they can to win, to entertain you immediately and permanently with the promise of as much victory as possible in every season, I see a non-contender with two rapidly depreciating assets (Rondo, Green) with $14 million in dead money (Wallace, Anthony) and a number of promising young players who could benefit from long minutes. Lose now and the Nets picks will extend and enhance our success curve when we should actually choose to compete.

        “He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.” -Sun Tzu

        • Curt Hays

          You read much too far into my statement.

          And besides that…

          “Men are always more inclined to pitch their estimated of the enemy’s strength too high than too low, such is human nature.” – Carl von Clausewitz

          • RedHead617

            I’d love to hear a convincing argument of how the Celtics current assets can be reasonably compiled into a contender. I don’t see it and am unconvinced that the Celtics (minus what it would take to get Love) are significantly better than the core he already has in Minnesota.

          • Mike C

            My argument is this; You have to put yourself in A Position to win! Kevin Love is just one piece we need. If you keep tanking year after year waiting for the next Lebron to be drafted, you have ZERO chance. Getting into the Post Season is Vital, no matter what your odds. Alot of Luck is involved in winning a Championship. Players get injured. Players put up ridiculous last second game winning shots. Traitor Ray Allen, perfect example. He doesn’t hit that three against the Spurs two years ago & the Heat would have one less championship. Anything ‘Can’ and ‘Does’ happen in the playoffs. You have to Be There to capitalize though!

          • RedHead617

            Charlotte, Atlanta, Washington, Brooklyn, Toronto…New York! I’m sure they’d agree with you and they’d also serve as our nightmare middle-of-the-pack scenarios. These teams aren’t serious about winning championships; trading long-term potential for capped out rosters that the fans demand for the upcoming season is a emblematic of foolish leadership. Forget all the historic examples of teams between 10-20th best staying that way for a decade and remember that the team who actually beat all these impatient Eastern pretenders got slaughtered in the Finals.
            Finally, NBA basketball has proven time and again that the outcome of a seven game series is far less random than any other sport. It isn’t close and you can’t hope and pray for dethroning LeBron when you’re still paying Gerald Wallace $20 million over the next two seasons, much as I’d love to be back to the glory days asap.

        • Jason Whetzell

          Hope isn’t a strategy but you don’t turn your back on progress.

      • Mike C

        Agreed, @Curt. Acquiring Love to our additions this summer takes us from 3rd worst record last season to possible 2nd round playoff appearance next year in a wide open Eastern conference. Thats a Hell of a good start to a Celtic rebuild. @RedHead617: I want another Championship just as much as you do, but I Cant Handle watching another season like what we just went through! Competing against Lebron and Cleveland in the post season…”Hell Yeah, I’ll take our Chances!”

        • Fitzy

          plus we have nets lottery picks. so if we do acquire love we’ll be getting probably at worst a 8-12 pick plus our own at 20ish

    • Rich Jensen

      “If he were willing to resign in Boston then we’d know it by now.”

      I don’t think that’s a safe assumption. I doubt that Boston’s front office would leak that info because it doesn’t really benefit the team to do so.

      Also, as “an educated shareholder”, you should appreciate the value of being flexible in the means of achieving your long-term goals. Since we’re all quoting people, here’s mine: “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.” (Einstein)

      To pass up a chance to acquire Love for a ‘fair’ price in order to purse a strategy of rebuilding strictly through the draft (embracing the fickle character of the lottery and the risks of unproven talent) is not sound. If you have an opportunity to upgrade for a ‘fair’ price, you upgrade. You will only get to contender status by upgrading.

      • RedHead617

        Not strictly through the draft, but through the draft until we acquire enough talent to compete with the best and pay off the rest of Wallace’s awful deal. When that expires, and assuming we don’t extend Rondo to a horrible contract, we’ll have Smart/Young/Olynyk/2015 High Lottery Pick on rookie deals, three years of the Nets declining future with a restricted Sullinger and a pile of cap room in a loaded FA class. That sounds better to me than two years of 45 wins with an aging Rondo, the possibility of a re-signed Love and few ways to advance into the elite.

        • Rich Jensen

          I’m going to break down what I think you’re saying here, because I’m a bit confused. If I misunderstand you, let me know.

          From the bottom up:

          I don’t believe in ‘a pile of cap room in a loaded FA class’. Think about teams that have won multiple titles in the past 15 years. How many of them did so by using a ‘pile of cap room in a loaded FA class’? Miami’s the only team–and arguably that occurred because of a deal struck years before.

          I am less concerned than you about ending up just outside of the lottery. Boston has done a very good job finding talent in that segment of the draft.

          I don’t buy into the scenario that a well-managed team can be doomed to NBA ‘limbo’. I don’t believe that draft position is that important, that shrewd trades cannot be executed by mid-tier teams, etc.

          I think this bit of conventional wisdom is misguided. Correlation does not establish causation, and in fact, teams that are historically ‘meh’ have tended to run through a recurring cycle of short-tenured GMs mortgaging the mid-term future for short-term gain (e.g. trading first round picks for players in their mid-30s, or overpaying for players who have had anomalous seasons–looking at you, Billy King). I’d also note that the coaches of these teams tend to be retreaded coaches who have a distinguished record of mediocrity (Rick Adelman, for instance), or they tend to be ‘me-too’ hires (Fisher, Kerr), wherein a short-sighted GM copies what other GMs are doing.

          Finally, I think a fair price for Love is 3 picks + either Sully or Olynyk. Or two picks + two of the following: Sully/Avery/Olynyk. Boston has a surfeit of picks, and using them to acquire proven top-shelf talent is the smart thing to do.

          Who’s the third piece needed to win a title? I don’t know. I think the era of “Big Threes” is over–cap considerations just don’t let you sustain that anymore. Maybe the future really is the San Antonio way, where you need very smart players and a cerebral approach to the game, as opposed to multiple players that dominate their positions.

          • RedHead617

            Rich, this is the best articulated argument I’ve heard and I wish I had more time to respond. However, we fundamentally disagree. A couple points:

            1. Cap room in the summer of 2016 may be useful in signing FAs, and plenty of teams have signed meaningful players besides modern Miami, but it’s far more likely to be used through trades as we deal then for the type of stars you’d like to see now.

            2. Rajon Rondo may be the most popular Celtic we have but the fact remains that he had literally zero impact on winning after returning from injury and is a year away from getting “market value,” which could mean a massive overpay or losing him for nothing. Until he proves otherwise, he is not an acceptable second banana to a Kevin Love team.

            3. The biggest offer we made for Love was Sullinger (our best young player), #6, #17 and a future 1st which could have been the Nets 2016. Unless they like Smart/Young as much as we do, we’ll either have to trade our entire future stash or won’t get a deal done.

            4. Avery Bradley’s fresh $32 million isn’t a asset until he plays above the contract. If he stays healthy and improves even slightly I’d say he is worth the deal but it’s highly unlikely he ever becomes the centerpiece of a deal.

            5. You overly mitigate the difference between high and mid-lottery, and we’ll need a high lotto pick to get a second star, since Rondo doesn’t appear to be one. Next year’s draft isn’t deep but has high ceiling talent at the top, leading me to advocate an all-in rebuild by dealing depreciating vets for the youth and future we’ll love when the time comes.

          • Rich Jensen

            Briefly–before we start writing War and Peace here…

            2 – I think it’s a bit premature to judge the long-term status of Rondo and his fit alongside Love.

            3 – W/the acquisition of the Cavs first, the C’s are down only one net pick from where they were before the draft. They can still offer 3 picks + Sully to Minny without digging too much deeper into their stash of picks. Also, this is starting to look like Flip’s best chance to get something for Love.

            5 – We’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this one. We appear to have differing views on the future ‘formula for success’, as well as Rondo’s potential.

            Otherwise, thanks for the discussion–feel free to continue it when you can.

          • RedHead617

            Clearly we’re both pretty passionate about this and at least we’ll know in time. If the 76ers plan fails then I’ll admit total defeat, and if we make the playoffs next year and forgo any more tanking en route to a title then I will be happily wrong about everything in the last few posts. My fear is that Philly is building a monster and we’ll waste a great Nets trade by rushing a rebuild with too few substantial assets to go all the way.

          • Rich Jensen

            My thinking is that the 76ers are going too far.

            Briefly, here are my three concerns with the Philly approach:

            1 – a culture of losing/undisciplined play–I don’t think you can hermetically seal off the ‘lose at any cost’ attitude of last year and (apparently) this year and (perhaps) next year from some future dominance. I think you’ll carry some of that stink forward.

            2 – young players are not ready to lead teams to titles, so you’re not going to take a bunch of players on rookie contracts to the Finals and win. Michael couldn’t do it. Shaq couldn’t do it, Kobe needed Shaq to do it, etc.

            3 – you still have to deal with the cap sooner or later. Even if you assume that Philly pulls an OKC and drafts Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka, well, you’re still going to have to make choices about who you keep, and there’s no guarantee you’ll draft perfectly, and that even if you draft perfectly, you’ll win a title.

            But I agree about the Nets trade–those assets need to be used carefully. Definitely.

          • forever_green

            There’s NO way our own pick is going to end up better than the 6th pick any time soon, we have those future Nets picks for that hope.
            We have way to many mediocre players to get a top five pick, even without Rondo. – Nobody said Rondo has to be a second banana, just a third banana would be fine, he’s not gonna demand a max contract, so I say keep him. Plus the Bradley signing does show DA is trying to win soon, more reason to keep Rondo.
            We have plenty of assets to add to our top talent without losing it. Even after we get Love.

            I’m sorry to tell you but our tanking is over, we failed at tanking its time to move on.

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  • forever_green

    Gasol to the Bulls, that’s interesting.

  • adam

    that sucks. I wish they could have dealt bass for a trade exception.

  • Todd Jordan

    Flip Saunders blew this entire Love Saga. He should have made trade with Denver or GS during the draft. I really believe Saunders is delusional and thinks he can resign Love. What a huge tactical error. The T-Wolves will suck for another 10 years thanks to the delusional GM, Flip Saunders.