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Report: Wolves not interested in Celtics rotation players

Chuck - Red's Army June 3, 2014 Avery Bradley, Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Rumors 89 Comments

SullyAB

Aside from Kevin Love’s weekend in Boston, there has been little news on the trade front for the Wolves big man. Thanks to a few league sources, Sean Devaney of the Sporting News has an update:

According to league sources, the Timberwolves remain ambivalent about trading Love, who is heading into the final year of his contract and has indicated to the team that he won’t sign an extension before free agency hits next summer.

Publicly, the Timberwolves are saying they expect Love to be in training camp with the team next fall. But behind the scenes, as one source put it, the Timberwolves are, “paving the way to make something happen sooner rather than later.” Sooner, of course, would be draft night.

The Wolves can remain ambivalent all they want, but doing a deal after this year’s deep draft doesn’t make any sense. Then again, we are talking about the Wolves.

What about the Celtics offer?

As for the Celtics, making a deal for Love is a priority, even if it costs this year’s top pick, which is No. 6 in the draft. From the Timberwolves’ point of view, the Celtics have plenty of draft picks available—their top pick, plus No. 17 in this draft, as well as picks belonging to themselves and the Clippers in 2015, plus their own and the Nets’ in 2016 and 2018. (Boston has Philadelphia’s pick next year, but only if the Sixers somehow make the playoffs.)

But what Boston is lacking is a young player with high-ceiling potential. The Celtics have no intention of including Rajon Rondo in a Love deal, because playing with Rondo would be one of the main lures in getting Love to sign an extension—and, of course, the Timberwolves already have Ricky Rubio.

Beyond Rondo, the Celtics’ roster mostly consists of decent rotation players like Jared Sullinger, Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk. That’s not quite what the Timberwolves have in mind as a return for Love—the question then becomes how much Minnesota values Boston’s picks, and which ones the Celtics would be willing to send.

Define high-ceiling? Are we talking about a top 20 player? I understand that a lot of teams aren’t high on Jared Sullinger. But you’re crazy if you don’t think he will average 18 ppg and 10 rpg.

If the Wolves don’t want Sully, I’d gladly keep him as 6th man behind Love for the immediate future.

If Minnesota wants picks only, I’d pony up the 6th, 17th, and a Brooklyn 1st rounder in 2016 or 2018. You’d have to throw in filler like Bass, Bogans and Vitor to make the salaries match. Or maybe a 3rd team gets involved.

Whatever it takes, Danny. Whatever it takes.

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  • Brad

    If they don’t want Sullinger, that’s A-OK by me. This is what we have all these draft picks for. There’s no way Danny’s plan was to slowly but surely develop a ton of picks to work our way back to the top.

    • LA Flake

      Totally agree. And Danny’s not going to get fleeced in a deal. Not when he knows the Wolves have no shot of retaining Love’s services.

      • adam

        I can’t believe I am going to agree with Stephen A Smith and or quote him here. But I think he is right: “However, Smith sees Love as worth no more than “a first-round pick and a decent player or two on your roster.””

        from
        http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/06/03/stephen-a-smith-on-dc-if-kevin-love-wants-to-win-boston-is-not-the-place-to-go-right-now/

        • Justin Quinn

          just say you agree w me, then :)

          seriously tho – ray allen = 1 1st rnd & some middling talent. kg = 1 1st rndr & middling talent. why would yo do more for love on a 1 yr agreement?

          • stevemb34

            Are you high? Ray was at least 32 when we traded for him and KG was 2 1s and Big Al who was one of the more highly thought-of young players in the league at the time, certainly more-so than sully now.

          • Justin Quinn

            …and we got 2 HOF players for a pic a piece that translated into a banner. big al was not as well regarded as you think (find me an article from that year stating something to that effect and i will apologize, word as bond), and wasn’t putting up numbers that different (compare per 36m records for their soph years).

            and on top of that, sactown is the only real contender, and love isn’t going to be more than a rental. so again, why would you trade away what you can’t get back but you could keep if you wait a year?

            are you high?

          • stevemb34

            You trade because if you wait he may get traded somewhere else before he becomes a FA

          • stevemb34

            On Big Al (keeping in mind he’s still just like 22 at this time)

            Over the next seven games, Jefferson averaged 16.3 points and 11.1 rebounds in 33.7 minutes per game. In what some considered a breakout performance against the New Jersey Nets on December 9, 2006, he scored a career-high 29 points and grabbed 14 rebounds[3] which tied a career-high (set on May 5, 2005 in a playoff game against the Indiana Pacers). It was the second time he had scored more than 20 points in a game. The previous occasion was on December 10, 2005 against the Dallas Mavericks where he scored 21 points. His third and fourth 20-point game came six and seven days after the second, on December 15 and December 16, 2006, when he scored 28 against the Denver Nuggets and 22 against the Charlotte Bobcats. These efforts punctuated a five-game win streak by the Boston Celtics.

            On March 3, 2007, Jefferson scored a career-high 32 points to go along with 18 rebounds against the New Jersey Nets,[4] against whom he had previously set his career high in points against earlier in the season. On March 5, Jefferson was named the NBA’s Eastern Conference Player of the Week for the week starting February 26 through March 4.[5]

          • Justin Quinn

            like where? sacremento? who cares? he won’t stay there, and cs can match anyone in FA. LA? lakers have the 7 pick and zero assets, and that’s the only place he’d stay. houston? i doubt it. chicago? maybe, but with what? we’re in the driver’s seat – let’s act like it.

          • stevemb34

            Justin, we’re in the driver’s seat cuz we have the most to offer in terms of young players and most importantly tons of draft picks. Don’t get confused, if he reaches free agency, he WILL go to LA.

  • wil

    they are just trying to get some leverage. lol i dont see any team with a better offer unless warriors trade Lee, Barnes, and Klay.

    Wolves are delusional if they dont think what the Celtics can offer is enough.

    Love is definitely going to walk away.

  • CallingBatman

    I’m OK keeping Sully too, in fact I’d prefer it. Not sure I’d consider Bass “filler” however. We also ought to be pushing for Asik.

    • Curt Hays

      Bass is filler because he’s a duplication of other players on the team.

      • wil

        exactly. tbh id consider giving up a pick to get rid of Wallace’s Joel Anthony and Bass contract. We can take up Kevin Martins longer contract.

        • Justin Quinn

          2nd round or the 76er’s conditional, yes. otherwise, nope. too valuable under current CBA.

      • Justin Quinn

        disagree. as i noted above, he’s useful in that he can guard big, explosive forwards like lbj while providing some offense. that’s worth what he gets – but not more.

        • Curt Hays

          his combination of skills is rare, but all are duplicates of other players. what he lacks is what the team lacks. He is just taking up cap space

          • Justin Quinn

            for now agree on that – won’t realistically need those talents til season after next, and he’ll be too old by then to deserve that kind of salary. i could see him on a squad like okc that needs a step up from perk in the paint.

          • Curt Hays

            What I’ve said in the past is that he is in fact a great shooter, and he can guard the best players in the league. The problem is that, if you want to have a dominating match up, he’s too short to be playing in the paint, but too big to be playing out of it.

            This is all fine if you have someone else to be your big in the paint. But we don’t. We have been watching him play next to Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Joel Anthony, Kris Humphries, Ryan Hollins, Shavlik Randolph, Troy Murphy. These are guys that don’t defend the paint that well against bigs. On offense, if Bass is shooting, then who is rebounding? Some other undersized PF/C. If KG or Sully or Kelly is shooting, then Bass is rebounding. That is no good because Bass is undersized. We lose almost every match up unless it’s Bass against someone like Carmelo because Carmelo stays out of the paint too. But then, who is going to stop Tyson Chandler?

            In order to actually win the match ups, we need to give his shot attempts to Bayless, and give his position in the paint to someone taller. Bass is too small to effectively stop the Robin Lopez’s, and he’s too big to stop the Monte Ellis’s. Sure he can stop guys his size, and he’s quick, and makes great plays. He is an amazing basketball player and athlete. But the NBA is about match ups and playing 5 on 5.

            Being a Celtics fan, I want Banners. You don’t win banners by matching up pretty well with a lot of the league. You win them by having a match up that is unstoppable. Dirk, LBJ, Durant, KG, Duncan, Larry Bird. We will never be able to beat Detroit if Bass is “guarding” Andre Drummond.

          • Justin Quinn

            spot on. he was only around to help kg & pp w lbj & similar matchups. he can be very useful on the right team (brooklyn, speaking of?) but not on the cs basically 5ever.

          • Curt Hays

            LOL, 5ever.

          • Curt Hays

            You make a great point about timing vs salary. I forget to think that far ahead, LOL.

      • adam

        yes, and he seems to be pretty consistant.

    • wil

      we are bound to keep either sully or olynyk. Bass will be a filler contract. Id rather go for Gortat than Asik. Gortat is a decent rim protector with offensive talent that will go well with Rondo.

      • Brian Girolamo

        absolutely. I don’t think Boston could outbid other teams for Gortat, but they certainly could get Asik and if the Rox don’t want to take a player back, they could send a pick and the TPE so that Houston opens up cap room in their pointless Melo persuit.

        • wil

          im thinking of Jeff Green for a s&t for Gortat. If rumors are true that they like Jeff in washington.

          This way we get rid of Jeff Green and start fresh with another sf free agent. Rudy Gay, Luol Deng, Hayward, we got choices we can invest in. This entirely plausible if we get Love first.

          • Justin Quinn

            gay > deng > hayward. by #s, hayward only has youth & mmmmaybe ceiling on green.

          • wil

            and basket ball iq. He is also a better at getting his own show than green.

            What i want to see is Hayward get coached by Ron Adams, he shot 41% from three then dropped to 30% this year.

          • Justin Quinn

            that’s what i alluded to w/ ceiling. virtual clone of green by numbers, but when he’s a more seasoned vet, i think the higher iq & more consistent motor will be worth 10-15% better numbers overall.

          • wil

            Hayward is a way better passer too. Which will be big if we want a team that moves the ball well.

            i agree with the motor, i think Hayward is more of a hustle player with a more versatile game.

            This all depends on how much money they will demand in the free agency.

          • stevemb34

            Gay is trash

          • LA Flake

            So if we get Love, then do a couple of S&Ts for Gortat and Gordon Hayward, we’ll have an All White Team!

            Oh, crap. Was that racist? Am I going to be banned for life?

          • stevemb34

            I don’t think we have the $$$ to get any of them anyway. Love + Rondo + Gerald Wallace (note: Kill me) S&T’d Gortat +the rest of the team is way too much for us to have the $ to offer a good FA to say nothing of what could happen with Avery Bradley. that’s good though cuz Gay is trash.

          • wil

            gay is still an upgrade over jeff green. And we do have capspace to sign a big free agent

          • stevemb34

            No we don’t. Assuming we dump everyone we could and resign Avery around $6M per (and Joel Anthony takes his $3.8M player option which he obv will) we’d have like $6-$11M in cap space. That’s before Love/guaranteed $$$ for our 1s mind you.

            And Gay is trash. Ya, he’s a bit better than Jeff Green so what you’re saying is you wanna make the same mistake we did with Jeff on a larger scale instead of getting out from under it? Great call dude. Wicked smart.

          • Justin Quinn

            go to basketball reference and compare numbers. overpaid, sure. trash? are you high, bro? i suspect you are trolling, because you don’t seem like you are using any realistic yardstick to base your opinion on.

          • stevemb34

            Not trolling at all. And I hope I don’t need to explain the context of trash in terms of guys that are paid at least $12M per year, which I’d think is the absolute minimum he’s getting.

            Two playoff teams couldn’t wait to get rid of him and didn’t miss a beat. That is important; if I’m paying someone $10M+, he darn sure better be missed if he’s out. Rudy Gay = Josh Smith, aka the next awful-literally-as-soon-as-it’s-signed contract.

            So he’s “still an upgrade over Jeff Green” so instead of getting out from under that you want to make that mistake again on a larger scale?!?

            He’s a volume shooter that can’t shoot at all. And look at basketball reference? Advanced statitistics HATE him.

          • Justin Quinn

            http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/02/18/rudy-gay-changing-his-reputation-with-improved-play-for-kings/

            wrong.

            tbf, you were right until pretty recently. looming FA evidently does wonders to PER etc..

          • stevemb34

            So you’re saying you want to go for a guy who only gives you his best when it’s time to get paid again? Ya, sounds like a Celtic to me. SMH…

            Also, if we don’t have the $$$ to get Lance, we DEF don’t have the $$$ to get Gay (unless you know something Zach Lowe doesn’t… http://redsarmy.com/2014/06/10/the-celtics-dont-have-much-interest-in-lance-stephenson/

          • Justin Quinn

            no, i initially said gay was better than deng who is better than hayward, and the stats back it up. that said, past performance and salary (even what he’ll take when it inevitably dips) prob not a good investment – really none of the three are good fits, imo. gay or deng might be worth a gamble around 10-12m, but i doubt that ever happens.

  • Brian Girolamo

    Don’t forget the almost $14 mill in trade player exceptions that Boston has. If vanilla city only wants picks and the top of the boston crop not named Rondo, then we could easily send said picks, the TPE and even take KMart’s awful contract off their hands if it means getting KLove. KMart at that price would be an excellent 6th man, but not a starter by any means. Vanilla City would get way under the cap ceiling then and be able to do whatever they want instead of waiting til next summer, get bent over by GM’s that will all say, “we told you so” and watch KLove walk away for nothing…

    • wil

      Problem with using that trade exception, we will have less money to plug in the holes of our roster. We can exchange wallace contract for Kmart tho.

      But Kmart will have to start for us considering that contract.

      • eddysamson

        Tell that to Kris Humphries. Contracts have NOTHING to do with your role.

        • wil

          We already have Bass, Sully and Olynyk. Ofcourse his role will be limited.

          But youre taking in Kevin Martins 7 mil a year contract. Cheapest shooting guard we can afford would be Bayless.

          Contract size has no inkling on your play time. But i does have an effect on how many players your team can afford.

          Id rather use our cap space to sign a center.

          • stevemb34

            If we trade for Love and keep Avery in the $6M range that’s been rumored we won’t have the cap space to sign any centers for anything resembling fair value assuming we can’t con anyone into taking on Crash’s contract.

  • eddysamson

    Personally I think both Sully and Olynyk have high ceilings. I think Olynyk’s game is a lot like Love’s and could easily develop to being more consistent. Same goes for Sully although his game is a bit different. Of the two I’d rather keep Olynyk but I like both.

    • Justin Quinn

      olynyk will never have the body to block out the way he needs to for either position he plays. sully is already there, and has room to grow. i like olynyk too, but he’s really the only interesting asset cs have that is better than a niche player like bass.

  • Justin Quinn

    thank god you are not a gm. you do not trade SEVERAL 1st round picks of salary controlled talent PLUS an almost certain starter for a 1 yr rental on a team that is almost certainly looking at mid-playoff exit best case scenario. IF love stayed – and he might not if they missed the playoffs, which could def happen if all pieces don’t come together – you’d have decent cap space but few assets left, and would hardly be in a better spot the year after.

    nope.

    keep sully. 1 pick + olynyk. (and bass and green or some such). make it your mantra. value a winning culture. you won’t get back there if you run too fast. we have assets. rondo will deal with next year as long as da & co make smart moves. he (and love for that matter) are not going to settle for twolves 2.0. let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

    • eddysamson

      You are conviently ignoring the fact that Love is a big fan of the Celtic’s winning tradition. He’s stated that in the last few weeks as well as saying he doesn’t mind going to a team that won’t be a contender right away. That he will sign an extension with a team that has real championship ASPIRATIONS and the ability to put talent around him to fulfill those aspirations. Doesn’t have to be his first year there, he’s only 25.

      • Justin Quinn

        people are fickle. you don’t build championship teams on statements – you build them with contracts and long term players. if love wants to be a celtic, he can be one when he’s a FA, and we can not spend infinitely valuable picks (remember, collective bargaining agreement REQUIRES high impact rookies as at least rotation players for any realistic contender). i was there in the wilderness period after bird et al pining for anything to root for. risky moves made it last a looooong time. if you remember, you know what i mean.

        • eddysamson

          So….who were those high impact rookies on the Heat again? Norris Cole? Lol. Come on. Risky moves also won us it all, don’t forget.

          • Justin Quinn

            yup, and chalmers (rookie contracts, not rookies), who ranked 8th and 4th per 36m on their team respectively. what risky moves are you talking about? ray allen? how many picks? one. did not become a FA next year, right? kg? how many picks? one. 2 year contract plus 3 extension.

            what are you talking about? i am not trying to be mean.. i don’t see the risk you mean at all. am i missing something?

          • LA Flake

            Don’t underestimate Norris Cole. And Mario Chalmers was on his rookie deal when he won his first ring. They were/are both HIGH IMPACT guys. Now champs.

        • Curt Hays

          No, deaths by two players made it last a long time. Unless you count Rick Pitino as a risky move…

          • Justin Quinn

            i count rebuilding by the draft a risky move, so we agree :)

          • BillRussell

            i was watching a Highlight real of Len Bias the other day- literally made me sic. the talent and ceiling that kid had was just incredible-

          • Curt Hays

            Yeah, I have a Mavs fan coworker who went to UNC in the 80s. He watched Len play a lot. Jordan is his favorite player, of course, but he was just telling me how bad it sucks that Len died. He told me that Len was just unbelievable to watch.

          • stevemb34

            and dumping Joe Johnson (to rent Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers to get to the ECF.) And dumping Chauncey Billups (made way better by 3 other teams doing the same before Detroit showed up.) and signing Raef Lafrentz to a huge deal. And trading for Vin & Tonic.

          • Curt Hays

            Lol

  • Suarez

    Sullinger might eventually average 18 and 10, if he’s playing on a team that wins 25 games. On a playoff team, he is a rotation player and would not put up close to those numbers, at least in terms of scoring.

    • LA Flake

      You’re underrating him. Sully is good enough to carry a team from time to time. He’s a real good one.

      • Justin Quinn

        agreed. avery is worth keeping for d alone, but he’s infinitely more tradeable, as are green (great 6th man value) bass (one of maybe 20 ppl in the nba that can guard lbj) and olynyk (also a great future rotation w ceiling as high as starter on middling teams. do. not. trade. sully.

        • stevemb34

          You trade sully all day for Kevin love. I like sully but if he really works out and everything goes well for him maybe he makes a hand full of all star teams (aka if everything is PERFeCT over te next few years he’s almost as good as love)

      • BillRussell

        you are right- Sullinger has legitimate potential. all a matter of how hard he wants to work now. I see legitimate flashes of Moses Malone sometimes with Sully. way he spaces the floor, offensive boards that he puts back- he has a throw back game- and when he is hittin threes, forget about it.

        • Suarez

          Moses Malone? I won’t even bother to explain how far off that is.

          Nuts.

          • BillRussell

            an undersized big who has a knack for rebounding/positioning and great touch around the basket……. ya real far off……
            i said flashed dude, potential. i didn’t say he was Moses relax-

    • stevemb34

      Agreed. Reminds me a lot of Carlos Boozer or a slightly worse Zach Randolph. People forget he would’ve been the (presumptive) first pick in the draft had he not gone back to OSU. He’s not a franchise player by any means but I bet he ends up on an all star team or two by the time all’s said and done.

  • LA Flake

    Chuck,
    your headline should read: REPORT: LOVE NOT INTERESTED IN STAYING IN SOTA.

    The Wolves should remember that Kevin Love didn’t do much during his first couple of years in the league. In fact, the Wolves fans were miffed at their GM for trading away their top pick, OJ Mayo, for Love during their rookie & sophomore campaigns.

    The Wolves need to remember: LOVE WILL LEAVE SOTA REGARDLESS.

    • Justin Quinn

      indeed. and no need to gamble to land him in FA. patience, young padawans!

      • LA Flake

        It’s comical how the Wolves are trying to make it seem like they’re in the driver’s seat when they have ZERO LEVERAGE and everyone knows it. I’m sure there are idiot GMs who can’t wait to mortgage his team’s future to rent KLove for one year. I hope to God Danny isn’t one of them.

        • Justin Quinn

          that’s a pretty apt summary, and based on the last major deals in 07, i’m inclined to think he isn’t. not everyone (NETSCOUGHCOUGH) dgaf about what happens in 5 years and happen to be billionaires.

          on that note, how about them clippers? lux tax all day next year? or is ballmer getting a free seattle expansion a few years from now?

          • LA Flake

            I’m one of only 3-4 people in America praying for Donald Sterling to retain his team. I’d love to see the Clippers in disarray next season and just basically SUCK. We own their pick. That’s why.

          • Justin Quinn

            very good chance the whole association would be in disarray. i am guessing ballmer gets a gratis expansion in seattle to defray the cost of covering the cost of indemnification (which was some 11th level ish, tbh, on its own), only way i can see ballmer getting his $ worth is silver bringing in a new round of expansion, and giving him one free. to prevent a total revenue stoppage, it would have been worth it.

  • BillRussell

    I would really like to see K Love at the 3 for us- Sully could play 4- because Love stretches the floor anyways. he would cause a ton of mismatches and with good team D wouldn’t be that much of a liability on D. we just really need a center- badddd

    • Curt Hays

      A defensive Center is all I’ve ranted about since we lost Perk. I fully agree.

      As far as putting Love at the 3…allow me to think this through.

      Love gets a ton of put backs. Taking him out of the paint is going to cut back on his output a lot. Like any TEAM, certain guys’ stats will decline when they begin playing team ball (see the last Kevin from Minnesota to Boston).

      Putting him at the 3 would stretch the floor, and maybe allow him to be more like Paul Pierce…especially since Love is just under 6′ 8″ tall, barefoot. It would also hide some of his defensive weakness.

      Fewer RPG, (at least) same PPG, more APG, and the floor would be stretched for more (more team PPG).

      Conclusion: Do it.

      • adam

        the soft touch put backs by Gasol killed us in 2010.

        • Curt Hays

          Yep, right after they killed OKC (Game 6 buzzer?).

        • BillRussell

          that put back was actually an up and down- a travel- blown call- but ya killed us regardless

          • dk

            wasn’t that an “and-1″ too?–ugh

          • BillRussell

            ya it was- i was literally sic to my stomach

    • MikeABQ

      I have little faith Love could play the 3. Just not quick enough to guard guys on perimeter. Bass has had success checking LBJ AND Carmelo , but he is much more of an athlete. Plus, I feel like we would be best with someone who can get up and down the floor with Rondo at 3. Love at 3,sully at 4 and center x would make for very slow team, regardless of who is in backcourt

    • stevemb34

      That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. You wanna move one of the best rebounders in the league out of the paint?!?! For Sully? Put down the pipe homie

  • adam

    The article by that Sean guy is laughable. Sully is a beast and he will only be in his 3rd season.

  • Shane

    Avery Bradley (sign and trade), Jared Sullinger, filler, 6th overall for Love and spare parts. Utah signs and trades Hayward to BOS for picks (17th and a future), at Hayward’s request, so that he can rejoin with his college coach. Utah has cap space galore, we have the trade exception and space as well. BOS trades 1 future pick, Bass to HOU for Asik. Rondo, Hayward, Green, Love, Asik. Life could be worse, yea?

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