Sometimes, Chuck and I get into heated behind-the-scenes debates over the Celtics (among other things). They often devolve into wild leaps of logic, exaggerations of each others’ arguments, and name-calling. Today, Chuck decided he wanted to pull the trigger on some kind of trade. I have been steadfast in my belief that while the’re no guarantee things will work out with this roster, it’s our best shot at a turnaround.
What you have is a conversation that lasted nearly two hours over Google chat. After each of us tweeted about it, people asked to see it. So here it is.
My apologies for the formatting. It’s a little scattered, but I think you can follow along with it.
|9:14 AM Chuck: as the Lakers continue to suck… do you think the odds of landing Gasol for Green/Bass improve?
won’t those forwards fit D’Antoni’s system perfectly?
9:27 AM me: who backs up pierce
|9:28 AM Chuck: kris joseph
Ainge finds somebody
|9:30 AM me: at a time when you argue pierce is done you’re okay with just somebody backing him up|
|9:31 AM Chuck: only because Jeff Green contributes once every 3-4 games…
9:32 AM Sullinger makes Bass worthless… so I’m fine with that…
maybe we move a guard for a wing… Lee?
9:33 AM I think I’d rather keep Lee than Terry.. but I doubt anyone is taking JET
|9:38 AM me: So do you think Green/Bass are enough for LA to be convinced to give up Gasol?|
|Chuck: Probably not… but they seem more desperate than Boston right now|
|9:39 AM that deal doesn’t work salary wise anyway|
|9:40 AM me: right… because Gasol makes, what 19 million?|
|me: isn’t he the highest paid player in the NBA this year?|
|Chuck: kobe must make more|
| me: oh yeah
just looked it up.. $30 million
|9:41 AM Chuck: i like the thought of Pau and KG playing together the next two years|
|9:42 AM me: the reality is you’d need to trade pierce or Rondo to get that deal done financially
and they have Nash… so….
| Chuck: or Lee
|9:43 AM me: LA can only take so many players back
they have a full roster
|Chuck: 3rd team|
|me: oh, that makes it easier|
|me: it’s not happening|
|9:44 AM Chuck: hurdles aside… would you make the move for Gasol|
| me: yeah, if it involved guys that suck for us right now
but that’s like asking “hurdles aside, would you want $500,000″
|9:45 AM Chuck: please… Bass and JG get us close
if Danny can trade bags of shit for Lee… he can make that deal happen with other teams
| me: that’s shortsighted
9:46 AM he didn’t hypnotized Morey into making that deal… Morey wanted financial flexibility
so he took back unguaranteed contracts he could waive without repercussion
9:47 AM Danny was good enough to take advantage of that situation… but what other team out there is in a position to take Bass for 2 more years
I think Lee is still attractive
| Chuck: a team desperate for a smooth shooting big
a good character guy
|9:49 AM me: it’s possible…. I just don’t buy it happening|
|9:50 AM on top of everything… on top of all the guys that might work… you have to match salaries pretty much exactly
because of the hard cap
10:11 AM Chuck: dragic and gortat for Rondo
|10:14 AM me: no
don’t you think we can get a lot better for Rondo?
|10:16 AM Chuck: um…|
| me: I’m not opposed to trading rondo
but I’m not just going to give him away in a misguided attempt to maybe win a title now
|10:17 AM Chuck: those guys aren’t old… they have a shelf life|
|me: because if we don’t, now we’re moving into the post-KG/Pierce era with Goran Dragic as your center piece|
| Chuck: Jeff Green is the centerpiece… along with Bradley
and Fab melo
| me: lol
you’re giving me a stroke
I’d rather play this season out
10:18 AM and then explore the “blow it up” scenario in July
I just don’t buy Dragic and Gortat coming in for Rondo mid-season and suddenly making everything better
10:19 AM and that would just mean we’ve burnt our best trade chip
| Chuck: i hear you…
10:20 AM then we’re back to Cousins
|me: are we?|
|10:21 AM Chuck: i am|
|me: that deal is impossible|
|Chuck: look… i want a big trade by the deadline… make it happe|
| me: a 22 year old super-talented center only making $4 million
I’ll trade you and a first-round pick to the T-Wolves blog
10:22 AM it’s not happening
Cousins is max-contract talent
they’ll want max-contract return for him… and a bunch of picks the C’s don’t have
|10:23 AM Chuck: so you want somebody above Gortat but below Cousins|
|10:24 AM me: lol
what I want and what the Celtics can do are two different things
10:25 AM no one wants to accept the fact that the C’s have a bunch of mid-level contracts that no one is really clamoring for
our only chip is Rondo.. and to a lesser extent Pierce
Bradley and Sullinger are going nowhere
10:26 AM I can’t possibly dream up a scenario where this team trades someone and gets better in the middle of the season
|10:28 AM Chuck: but you can dream up a scenario where they improve on their own|
| me: Yes
10:29 AM Do you not remember beating the Knicks, Hawks and Pacers a few weeks ago?
| Chuck: a bunch of guys who no one around the league wants because they blow… are going to turn it around
3 games out of 40!!!!!
you hang your hat on that ratio
|me: ok, fine|
|10:30 AM Chuck: at least optimism in the unknown is natural…|
|me: This team has underperforming talent|
|Chuck: your optimism in the known boggles my mind|
| me: these guys don’t suck
they’re playing like shit
but they’re better than their performance
|10:31 AM Chuck: then opposing GMs should be smart enough to realize that|
| me: We’ve seen them play well
You still want Devin Harris?
Because that what the Gortat/Dragic deal is
|Chuck: oh… you had to go there… i make one mistake|
|me: the Harris scnario|
|10:32 AM It’s fine to trade Rondo if you want
but do you HONESTLY think a line up of Dragic, Pierce, KG, Bradley and Gortat makes the C’s championship material?
10:33 AM or would you rather roll the dice on Rondo waking up post-all star break and these guys playing up to their potential?
|Chuck: does it make them championship material or make them better?|
|me: what’s the point of making them a little better?|
| Chuck: i don’t think Rondo is the problem
we’re only moving him because we can’t move anyone else
| me: that’s true
10:34 AM These guys are worth more to Boston than they are to other teams
I don’t see the insane desire to make a mid-season trade
it smacks of desperation
10:35 AM and unless you’re (a) blowing it up completely or (b) bringing back an All Star… there’s no reason to do it
| Chuck: and… you’re like the wife who always brings up the husband’s one time affair.. every time they argue. That’s what Devin Harris is
smacks of desperation? they are desperate
20-21 is desperate
| me: Dude… they’re 6 games out of the 2nd seed
10:36 AM They win tonight… they’re 5 games out
fuck 20-21.. NY has only 5 more games
| Chuck: and 6 games the other way gets them where… deep in the lottery. works both ways
the season is half over…
| me: yes
10:37 AM and with 41 games left… they only have to make up 5 games to get to the 2 seed
What is so damn desperate about that?
| Chuck: because making up 5 games is enormous for a team that cannot string together wins…
10:38 AM believe it or not.. the 6 game winning streak is not the norm
| me: I understand that.
10:39 AM but I also understand that you’re not giving them the best chance to put one together by making a silly mid-season trade
| Chuck: the likelihood of this team – as currently constituted – climbing into the top 4 seeds is highly unlikely… 100-1
okay… so forget the trades
10:40 AM they’re going to be a 6-8 seed in the best case scenario
|me: so you think they can make up 4 games to get to the 6th seed… but making up 6 to get to 2nd is ridiculous|
|10:41 AM Chuck: i was being generous by saying 6… i don’t have standings in front of me… more likely they stay stuck in 7/8|
| me: I don’t think so
10:42 AM I think the CAN climb to the top 4 seeds
and the only chance of doing that is getting these guys on the current team to play like they did in that short stretch
that’s the only way that’s possible
10:43 AM no in-season trade will do it, because then you’re asking even more new guys to figure out how to play with these new guys
I’m not guaranteeing it will happen… but I’m saying the best chance for any sort of turn around lies within this current roster
| Chuck: so in season trades never help?
we couldn’t get a big to help?
| me: who the hell said that?
|Chuck: you just said throwing new guys in the mix wouldn’t catch on|
|10:44 AM me: if you can trade bass for a 6-10 PF… then great|
|Chuck: how could it be any worse?|
|me: Gortat & Dragic for Rondo is worse|
|10:45 AM Chuck: I’m not advocating for that deal… it was just a twitter suggestion that i passed along…
no you are making it into one of my demands
|me: how the hell was I supposed to know that was someone else’s idea?|
| Chuck: even if it originated with me… i was just throwing it out there..
10:46 AM i started with the Gasol thing…
|10:47 AM me: If Ainge can swing a minor deal… I’m all for it
if you can move Bass for a true big… then that’s great
|10:48 AM Chuck: Bass and Green…
will take more than Bass… he sucks this year
| me: Then you need to get a swingman to back up Pierce
as inconsistent as Green is… we need him to give Pierce rest
| Chuck: a journeyman will be better than Green
|10:49 AM me: I guarantee you you’d regret that statement if it happened
|Chuck: would he really be worse than Green? He generated a 2 points, 0 reb, 0 assist, 0 steal, 0 block in 19 minute stat line the other night|
|10:50 AM me: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamisan01/gamelog/2013/
10:51 AM Jamison had one monster game. he’s largely sucked otherwise
| Chuck: but we’d get Gasol
|10:52 AM me: I don’t think we’d get Gasol for that
I just don’t.
and again… money
10:53 AM C’s would take in almost $20 million in salary
you can make it a 10 team deal if you want… C’s still have to send out $20 million
I assume at this point, Chuck gave up arguing because he knew he was a beaten man… which is how all of our arguments have ended. Ever.