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Red's Army

Your Morning Dump… Where the Celtics were a bunch of non-athletes last night

John - Red's Army (@RedsArmy_John) December 28, 2012 Celtics News, The Morning Dump 35 Comments

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big storyline. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

“I just thought we were out-thinking ourselves tonight and I should have probably stopped it, and I didn’t,” Rivers said. “I let it continue and the old saying is, ‘An athlete in thought is a non-athlete,’ and I thought we played in thought and that makes you slow, that makes you tentative, and I thought that’s who we were tonight. I thought, offensively, we were even worse. We came off our best ball-movement game where everybody trusted the offense, the pass. Then tonight, when you’re playing a team that’s got a win streak like they do, everybody wants to beat them, and I thought every single individual on our team wanted to beat them and every individual tried to do it by themselves, instead of just playing the way you play.”

ESPN Boston: Banking on consistency?

Sometimes you can psych yourself out, and clearly that’s what Doc thinks happened last night.  Doc used the “everyone tried to do it by themselves” line in the mid-game interview as well.  I’m not sure what gets into these guys’ heads… maybe people need to realize that there isn’t anyone on this team that can consistently play Super Man anymore.

KG chimed in too

“We got away from stuff that we had been doing, that’s been working for us,” Garnett said. “We weren’t firm enough; you have to be firm.”

I don’t know what being firm means.  I do wonder if the Celtics have to do another ego-check and become a much more team-oriented and less individual-oriented squad.  Riding the hot hand is one thing, and some guys will have hotter hands than others, but these guys need to move the ball and find open guys rather than go 1-on-1.

The rest of the links: 

CSNNE:  Celtics-Clippers review  |  Barbosa’s return probable during trip  |  ESPN Boston:  C’s developing Melo’s confidence  |  Rondo, KG maintain All Star pace  |  WEEI:  Fab Melo and the debate over D-League dominance  |  Globe:  5 things we’ll learn from Celtics on this trip  |  Clippers trounce Celtics  |  Herald:  Joke’s on C’s now  |  Doc feels for friend  |  Second fiddle in LA  |  Celtics can’t stop streaking Clippers  

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  • JBcelticsFan

    Clippers are #1 team in the NBA. Celtics are a .500 team. Both teams played as well as their record last night. Celtics have the talent, just havent found out how to fit the pieces together. Once avery bradley returns players can return to their natural roles and develop from there as a team. I’m not worried at all, just be a top 5 seed and make a run in the playoffs. Regular season is boring to me anyways

    • Collin

      @JBcelticsFan
      Agree. What u said reminded me of what TNT’s Kenny Smith said last week. Smith said, ” teams like the Celtics, Spurs, Lakers, Thunder and Heat aren’t judge by the regular season”. Kenny Smith is probably right, but if you’re the Celtics, you have to win games too.

      This team as currently constructed is not good enough to contend with anyone or teams in the east. I’m no true believer in Ainge, but he will need to work magic in order to improve this roster.

      • eddysamson

        I dunno seems to me the last few seasons the Spurs are the opposite. Killing it in the regular season but not coming up short in the post season.

  • Collin

    The bad:

    * It was so bad for the Celts that Chris Webber, Reggie Miller and Marv Albert were talking trade scenarios for the Celtics. The TNT crew, Webber and Reggie, mentioned Marcin Gortat and DeMarcus Cousins would help the Celts. I think any legit big man would help at this point, because this team is too small at every position.

    The Celtics are just too small at every position. Guys like Green, Terry, Lee, Bass, Sully, Wilcox, Barbosa are not defensive minded. They can’t grasp the understanding of basic defensive rotations. I don’t know what Ainge or Rivers was thinking when constructing this Celtics bench, because the pieces don’t mesh with Garnett, Pierce or Rondo.

    Right now the Celts are too inconsistent to get a winning streak going. They’re a 6-8 seed at best for the moment. A likely first round exit.

    • swissflix

      i totally agree. Green looks so bad on those backdoor cuts, Sully is overwhelmed on rotation and Bass is always by anything and anyone overwhelmed.
      We have two quality defenders on the team – KG and AB- and it won’t be enough.

    • Me

      Do I Hear The Name Anderson Varejao… I know this guys is just a rebounder… i tried playing it on nba2k13 17+ rebounsd + 11+points a game, while rondo 17+ assist…

      we sometimes loose but in reality hell yeah

      rebounds do win games

      kg sometimes gets 11 rebounds

      it really helps
      we outscored opponents by large margins

      no rebounds no defense

      rebounds is the key to defense

  • G4L

    I would give up Bradley, Melo, Bass And next years 1st round pic for Cousins. If the Kings would make the trade is another story!

    • KGino

      this trade would make us worse for both the short and long term.. Ainge would never do it

      • G4L

        I dont think it will. Cousins at the 5 & KG sliding over to the 4 Sully off the bench with Wilcox(when healthy) and Collins the bigs of the bench is an upgraded big rotation. I understand AB is going to be a stud But so is Cousins & you have to give to get! & its a well known fact High end Centers are harder to find than high end Wings especially small 2 gaurds. Melo at his best is 3 years away from being dominate if he ever becomes such a thing. Look at how long it took Tyson Chandler. He played with 6 teams in 8 Years before he blossemed last year in Dallas. How about Javel McGee? He’s still developing & isnt all that great right now. MAYBE in 2-3 years he will reach his full potential!
        My point is Melo Might be good in 3-5 years. Cousins is already good & will be great with imporvment! yes he’s a head case but KG can help him out in the next two years that he is here.

        Lee is a fine Defensive 2 Gaurd & he shoots better than what he is showing now plus he is signed for the next 3 years.

        • CelticsKid34

          that would be a scary front court. melo at the 5 blocking anything within a 10ft radius of the basket and cousins at the 4 doing the same and eating rebounds. imagine the day. Rondo, some SG, Green, Cousins, a fully developed 7 foot monster named melo. it would be awesome but looking at its probability i dont think so. 2 reasons why we wont trade bradley. 1 being that he needs to do what every player has to after coming off surgery… show his worth. other teams dont know his true potential right now its all speculation. 2 if bradley is still here 10 minutes after jan.15 when players are unleashed as tradables (meaning if he doesnt get included in a package on that day) dont expect him to leave. perk had his injury issues and he was more valueable to us than bradley is now. we waited a a year and a half to have this kid back… i dont think we are going to bail on him now.

        • KGino

          Its too risky.. why trade arguably the best perimeter defender in the league and a solid prospect in Melo (plus ANOTHER draft pick) for a guy who’s NEVER established himself as a team player? If you were sure he would come in, put up 20 and 10, and keep his mouth shut, then it would be a good trade. Those are too many ifs though.

          If we can get him for Bass & Melo, its worth a shot. Ainge is too smart to trade Avery for anyone with Cousin’s baggage. Avery is a stud.. unless Ainge is getting a SURE THING stud/future stud in return, he shouldn’t deal away KEY pieces to the future (RR, AB, JS).

          • KGino

            PS I wouldn’t trade AB for Cousins straight up!

  • greentide

    its been awhile since the c’s had a lotto pick

    • KGino

      Only 5-6 years, and don’t expect one any time soon

  • Roy

    That was a really bad game. Yes, the Clips are the best team right now in basketball, but typically games like these get the C’s up for the challenge. No ball movement at all and no stops when we needed it early on to get in the game again. Danny needs to make a call to Sacramento. I have given in. We need to trade for Cousins

  • Brick James

    Last night’s game: yeesh.

    As an aside, two games in a row with a Sullinger F1. I think both calls were bad, but the one last night was worse. I can see the one on Wallace remaining flagrant. However, is the rook starting develop a reputation with the zebras? If so, it’s not a good one.

  • Collin

    Here’s my question to Ainge, if the idea was to build this Celtics team for a win now situation, then why draft 3 rookies? Shouldn’t the Celtics draft only Sully or possibly trade Melo and Kris for some vets with expiring contracts. During the off-season, the Celtics were interested in Matt Barnes, Andrey Blatche, Reggie Evans, Kenyon Martin, Dahntay Jones, Carlos delfino, Jannero Pargo, Louis Amundson and Carly Landry, but Ainge passed on all? WTF!

    I know I’m going to catch heat, but Ainge is not a very good GM. His talent scouting his absolutely bad. Though Ainge doesn’t get all the blame for the team’s struggles, but he’s partly responsible. Just imagine if the Celtics had a bench with Matt Barnes, Andrey Blatche, Reggie Evans, Kenyon Martin, Dahntay Jones, Carlos delfino, Jannero Pargo, Louis Amundson and Carly Landry. This team would probably be dangerous.

  • Brian

    I’d love to have cousins but no way in hell do I want to part with AB. Remember how bad the d was last year with allen starting? Terry is worse, and rondo is gassed trying to cover for him. It’s not an effort thing, ya guys saw rondo on blake last night. With avery back at the 2 rondo won’t have to switch and the bigs wont have to rotate late. It’s a trickle down effect. We have a better team then the one who made it to the ecf. Come april guys like sully and melo and collins will do alot better then guys like hollins did in the playoffs. You can trade for cousins but as long as you have lee or terry at the 2 starting you are going to have your bigs picking up fouls because your 2 cant keep the dribble penetrators out of the paint. I’d rather have a lock down 2 guard that takes the pressure off of everyone.

  • Quest

    Ainge looking to improve the offense gave up/traded away defensive minded players. The Clippers playing with their full 11 man roster, just exposed the Celtics weaknesses that’s all.
    “Thinking too much” IDK more not thinking enough or not thinking like a team.

    Did not really expect the Celtics to win against the Clippers’ size , youth and speed but a Blow Out now that was a surprise. If this is not a wake up call to the Cs organization then this team is truly in trouble that no rationalization or word games can cover up.

    The clock is ticking. Can they get it together in the next 24 games ileading into the Allstar weekend. Because after that its all about positioning for the playoffs and there is a hell of a lot of good teams out there.

    I

  • The savior

    I know this has been brought up under the radar a few times, but I believe Doc should truly consider bringing pierce off then bench ala ginobili & start green.

    C’s have always been an unselfish team (which was aided by the fact that our best playmaker over the years pierce is so unselfish) but pierce has always been still been our #1 option in the half court especially when ball movement. running ray around screens, or the initial push fail to create a shot. Now, however, Rondo is being pushed into that primary playmaker role, which is great to have another option as pierce can’t carry that load for a whole game. Yet, chemistry wise it’s overlapping somewhat w pierce’s game as a playmaker. Moving pierce to the bench, establishes rondo, definitively, as the #1 playmaker, which also would aid Jeff green in merely cutting and driving thru open lanes and shooting open jumpers (thus taking away any playmaking responsibilities from green which is a good thing). Pierce can then come off the bench and be #1 option whenever he’s in the game against bench players that he’d dominate (pierce is also our 2nd best distributor so guys like terry, bass, & sully would prolly get even more looks). Pierce could cut his min from 34 to 30-32, & still put up the same #’s if not better bc his usage rate would be higher when he’s on the floor. Terry would no longer be asked to run point & he can play off the ball which was his natural role in Dallas. Pierce would in effect play back up point forward making our lack of a backup pg a non factor. Green is not a significant drop off defensively, he can run better w/ rondo, and frankly pierce’s talents are somewhat wasted having rondo create for him bc he can create for himself, whereas green is dependent on someone creating for him.

    Starters:
    KG
    Bass
    Green
    Bradley (Lee for now)
    Rondo

    Bench:
    Pierce (he will still play low starter min, but should be on the floor at all times when rondo is off the floor)
    Terry (u could swap terry into the starters if you want more playmaking with pierce out and have lee play w pierce)
    Sully (if u insert terry into starting, u could then swap sully and bass so that bass can provide more shooting w pierce and sully more rebounding w kg)
    Wilcox
    Barbosa
    Collins

    • The savior

      We had a similar ideology when we attempted this w/ ray moving to the bench, hoping that he would be the primary option w the 2nd unit. But w ray, he’s no longer a shot creator; he depends on good screens and a good pg to get him looks. All pierce needs is shooters around him and the ball. Overall, I think the starting unit can keep up the same production w green instead of pierce since he’ll be surrounded by rondo and kg. But more importantly out bench will explode bc pierce will be the greatest backup pg we’ve ever had.

    • The savior

      We could never do this before bc rondo wasn’t ready to be the focal point of the starting unit, but he is now. Rondo or pierce should be on the floor at ALL times!

    • Brick James

      great post. agreed on all counts

    • eddysamson

      Aside from conditioning I think all Green really needs to step it up consistently (or at least more consistently) is to be starting. I think that would help get him back into his old OKC mindset.

      I want to see more of his corner 3’s because hes about 100x better than Lee at that shot this season.

  • Double P

    Why is bradley so untouchable? Everyone was raving about trading rondo last year and hes 100xs the player bradley is.. uf you can add a legitimately young big man and only have to give up Bradley and some throw ins the trade would have been done yesterday. People are way over rating Bradley, he’s a good piece but not an all star caliber like cousins

    • KGino

      If there was an All Star game for Defense, Avery Bradley would start for the Eastern Conference. Cousins isn’t an all star on either ends of the floor, and may never be

      • Double P

        The point is we already have an all star guard, pairing a potential all star young big man with him would be a no brainer move for ainge if the centerpiece going back is bradley. Bradley is great defender but under sized at the 2 and cant play point, let’s be realistic is all im saying. People are pegging him as untouchable. Only players that are untouchable are franchise players and AB is not one

        • KGino

          trade our sure thing starting 2 guard of now & the next 8-10 years for a head case that might POSSIBLY develop into an all star and start for us for the next 8-10 years.. seems more counter productive than a “no brainer” to me.

          It’s like deal or no deal. Would you trade a sure thing $500,000 prize for a 50/50 shot at $750,000 knowing its a strong possibility you may end up with $0? I wouldn’t.

          Plus, you’re mistaken if you don’t think AB could be an all star one day. Maybe you’re the one UNDER-rating him.

          • Drew

            Agreed 100 percent. AB stays.

          • Double P

            So your telling me that this season, you feel better about bradleys return than if on jan 2nd we had cousins “returning” to the lineup next to KG? You would prefer the return of bradley over cousins and their potential impact on the team? No way… Adding cousins would make such a bigger impact

          • Double P

            And sorry but AB is no sure thing, hes been injured his entire career. He can’t help us if hes never healthy

          • Me

            bradley needs to stay lee can go SF i will not hesitate to trade green. besides im resigning pietrus in offseason

            cousin will help but…with rondo (he has no control on his temper besisdes cousins) and dont say bradley + bass is enoug for cousins…sully needs to be included in trade? that is too much already

            as ive said if we can get green + bass + picks for varejao, im ok with it, rather than hardheaded cousins

          • Me

            and i need bradley, he cant stop wesbrook kobe d-wade but.. at least he can contain them.. rondo + bradley are lethal when both on the court… just removed green put in pietrus next year put lee on sf too sometimes..celtics will be a really defensive team.. as the say…

  • Garnett’s Grl

    They clowing on the bench, so unprofessional. I remember another team doing that a few yrs ago and look what happened, the best player took his talents to south beach and the coach got fired…..I’m just saying!!!!!!

  • Me

    i know anderson varejao just rebounds injury proned…but when he is healthy hell yeah…

    maybe celtics got good medical staffs
    varejao can outrebound bynum lopez bosh chandler..which is we really need for now

    he improved his jump shooting now
    and he is good at floor spacing which is terry really needs specially pierce and lee

    pick n roll works on terry like he did on dirk
    just give some ball rotation floor spacing
    hell yeah terry can hit those 3’s if he miss he miss but i know at PF kg can grabbed those rebounds with varejao beside him

    the only reason is can we get him?
    i know come playoffs he will be a beast

    and for me i’d rather loose green than loose bradley…as long as pierce is there

    next year imma sign back pietrus which is a defensive minded who guarded lebron a lot last year

    if t-mac is good then take him too
    or get SF like tayshun prince
    as a back up of pierce

    i know chris grant (gm of cleveland) thinks that varejao is really valuable

    because look bradley + lee + bass is not enough for cousins… also sacramento needs to add players to match the salary
    i think they will ask green + bradley

    for me gortat or varejao

    if for gortat i know he is a good player..green alone is enough i think

    but…. if we can get varejao for green + bass + joseph + 2014 picks

    i think im ok with that

    and if we can get kevin seraphine a PF of washington wizards hell yeah

    i like this line-up

    RONDO/TERRY

    BARBOSA/BRADLEY/LEE

    PIERCE/LEE (one player of suns or cleveland) maybe CASS or WALTON or WESLEY JOHNSON or DUDELY

    KG/SULLY/WILCOX/VARNADO

    VAREJAO/COLLINS/WILCOX (melo still on d-leaugue)

    IF WE STILL HAVE THE BAE SALARY

    MAYBE SIGN KENYON MARTIN OR CHRIS BIRDMAN ANDERSEN OR BEN WALLACE OR ERICK DAMPIER OR M’DYIANE OR FESENKO OR MURPYH any big just to sub for centers