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Your Morning Dump… Where the Celtics are an awful rebounding squad

Nick Sannicandro November 21, 2012 Around the NBA, Celtics News, The Morning Dump 20 Comments

Every morning, we compile the links of the day and dump them here… highlighting the big storyline. Because there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good morning dump.

To see the Boston Celtics at or near the bottom of the standings when it comes to rebounds isn’t all that surprising.

After all, it’s not like it’s anything Celtics fans haven’t seen in recent years.

But what’s disturbing about things right now is that as bad as the C’s have been in recent years, there are signs that they are getting worse.

CSNNE: Celtics rebounding problem as bad as it gets

As  A. Sherrod Blakely correctly points out, that the Celtics are an abysmal rebounding squad should come as no surprise to any fan of the team that has watched them with any regularity in the previous three regular seasons. Crashing the boards is just not a part of their gameplan. The reason for this is often debated amongst fans, but most likely this is because the Celtics would rather get back and set their defense rather than leaving the team vulnerable to a fast break. Regardless, as Blakely points out in the article, the Celtics are just getting much worse on the glass as they get older.

The Celtics currently rank dead last in rebounding  and have a differential of -5.3 rebounds per game according to the article. Personally, I see more of an issue in the Celtics rebounding technique as opposed to the gameplan. How many times have we seen Kevin Garnett go up for the one handed rebound and lose the battle to a far inferior player because his opponent went at it with two hands? This has been a problem for a few seasons now, there is very little technique being taught to the Celtics bigs for rebounding, as these issues were evident in Kendrick Perkins, Jermaine O’Neal and Semih Erden. It is incredibly frustrating for me to watch the Celtics attempt to grab rebounds (when they actually attempt to) and give up a softie rebound like the one handed lazy rebound.

Instead of giving the Celtics the out year in and year out that it is just a part of the scheme, its about time that their coaching staff takes this one on the chin. Clifford Ray did fantastic work with the bigs when he was in town, but a messy breakup just a few seasons ago saw Ray leave town and the Celtics are yet to replace him with a competent bigs coach.

The rest of the links: 

ESPN Boston:  Doc on Darko, Rondo’s Assist Streak | Spurs a model of consistency | NESN: Jared Sullinger Sees Extending Rondo’s Assist Streak Payback for Making Teammates Job’s Easier | Herald: Doc Rivers feels for Darko Milicic’s plight | Darko Milicic’s Time with Celtics “Most likely” Done, Team in No Rush to Add Big

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  • Ray

    They’re a bad rebounding team, because of the small line-up, and the team puts no effort into rebounding. The past 2 seasons, the Celtics have been a poor rebounding team. Watch Celtics games, the team doesn’t crash boards or box out to get rebounds.

  • RedsLoveChild

    The Celtics are strictly a “finesse” team….and, unless a finesse team is loaded with superstars in their prime years, there will be no victory parade in June.

    Without big, muscular, brawny rebounders…you simply cannot impose your will on the opposition.

    • http://slapdoghoops.blogspot.com Slap Dog Hoops

      Couldn’t have said it better myself. Actually if I were to say it, Celtics fans would bitch up and call me a hating troll or whatever.

      • Roy Boy

        They’re not that gritty or physical team people are accustom to watching. You’re being nice calling them “finesse”, I think they’re just lazy. Lol

  • Cam

    I couldnt give 2 shits about offensive rebounding. Anybody saying we aren’t a good rebounding team because we get back on defense just aren’t paying attention or just doesn’t get it.

    Nobody gives a shit about offensive rebounds. I don’t care if they don’t even look in the direction of the basket after the shot. Its the defensive rebounds that are a problem.

    KG is still a very good defensive rebounder Pierce is a good rebounder for his position and Rondo is elite at his position. Other than that we just don’t have talented rebounders.

    I don’t get the “coaching” point. Perkins is an even worse rebounder in OKC is that because Scott Brooks doesn’t coach rebounding? Green and Bass were known as poor rebounders before they came here and now people just say “he has the size and body to be a good rebounder, he should be good”. Obviously ir doesn’t work like that.

    Its a talent and a gift to be able to rebound. Its not just “effort”. The main issue is we haven’t acquired anyone in years that is known to be a good rebounder, mainly defensive rebounder. We’ve had KG who is still good and second all time in defensive rebounds but obviously his minutes getting cut and getting older are affecting that.

    The problem is it seems difficult to acquire a rebounder with our salary numbers. You are looking at reggie evans, marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin who can rebound bit do little else. Or youhave to give up some talent to get a talented rebounder player like J, Smith, Gortat, Varejao, Jefferson

    • paul

      Cam, you do a good job of making excuses for the Cs. But let’s break it down. You say that the reason we don’t rebound well is that we don’t have the players, and we don’t have the money to get the players. Ok. But if we don’t have the players, that says a lot about our choices when we go after talent, right? So obviously that’s very much down to the coach and the GM. Yet you claim this lack of rebounding talent as proof that we shouldn’t blame the coach and the GM!!!!!!!!!!

      You also claim that offensive rebounding doesn’t matter and no one cares about it. Really? FUNNY HOW OTHER TEAMS KEEP HAMMERING US ON THE OFFENSIVE BOARDS AND THAT’S PART OF THE REASON WE LOSE GAMES!!! I mean, come on, make real arguments please. Don’t talk the kind of crap that sounds like talking points handed out by the Celtics to their media stooges.

      Of course offensive rebounds matter. They matter a lot. They don’t matter as much as they once did because people shoot better now than they once did, but they still matter. In fact, you may remember that one HOF player helped two teams win five championships, and offensive rebounding was probably his single biggest contribution (yes, Rodman).

      EVEN IF a team wants to downplay offensive rebounds as a strategic decision, because they want to place their emphasis on getting back defensively, they STILL have to attack the offensive glass at least somewhat. Why? Well think about it. If the other team knows you won’t contest the glass after you shoot, they can still grab the rebound and initiate their offense faster than you can get back. By refusing to contest the offensive glass at all, a team gives up much of the advantage in timing that they supposedly gain, because part of the reason for offensive rebounding is to make it harder for the opposing team to initiate their offense even if they do grab the rebound. The principle in basketball is that you try to force the opposing team out of what they want to do. Contesting the offensive glass, at least somewhat, is part of this.

      As for Perkins in OKC, have you totally failed to miss the fact that Ibaka and Durant have become much better rebounders since Perk arrived? No, of course you haven’t. You are just spitting out talking points. You know very well that Danny getting rid of Perkins showed, among other things, a total disdain for rebounding. Perkins makes room for other Bigs to rebound, even though he himself is a terrible rebounder.

      • Cam

        Sorry im a bit lost on a lot of this. As I mentioned earlier defensive rebounds are what is important aka not giving up offensive rebounds. When we lost to LA a few years back it wasn’t because we didn’t grab offensive rebounds it was because we couldn’t rebound on the defensive end And Gasol was grabbing like 8 offensive boards himself.

        I exagerrated obviously about not going for 1 offensive rebound but my point is that defensive rebounding ia significantly more important. I can live with only grabbing a few offensive boards a game but giving up 19offensive rebounds is inexcusable.

        I def put a lot more blame on the GM than on the coach because in my opinion which I pointed out, we have not acquired a good rebounder since the big 3 pretty much.

        By the way I don’t get your argument with Perk. He was a terrible rebounder with us and terrible rebounder now. Bass, Green, Darko, Wilcox all terrible rebounders no matter what team they played on.

        Im not danny so I don’t know his thoughts or what’s available or not available. Its also a little difficult to get too upset when clearly he has at least stock piled talent. But if you are going to get mad at someone its him. Its not realistic for Doc to turn poor career rebounders into good ones.

        Its kinda funny that a rumor involving Avery Bradley for Gortat brings people to tears even tho that would certainly close the rebounding gap for a player that played well for a quarter of the season

  • paul

    Thankyou. My God, it’s about time someone got into the coaching staff for this, and Danny too. It’s been one debacle after another in recent years for this team, when it comes to Bigs. There was the Clifford Ray mess. There was The Trade, which will likely go down in history as the most ill-timed trade ever, and also as one of the worst, unless Green really really really comes to life. There was Jermaine O’Neal – supposedly an answer at center when he could barely walk, it seemed. And then there was Big Baby. Yes. Big Baby. I’m not saying that Baby was ever going to be Wilt Chamberlain, or even Wes Unseld, but his career in Orlando has made clear what SHOULD have been obvious when he was with the Celtics: that this is a guy with a nose for the paint and we ought to encourage it. The Celtics mishandled Davis, and that’s a lot of the reason that he was so confused and so disappointing.

    So now we have Sully. It’s important that Doc and Danny make a conscious effort not to screw this one up. This kid has real Big Man potential, even though he’s not that big. But it won’t play out unless Doc and Danny consciously recognize that they don’t handle Bigs well.

    My rec. is that we should consider bringing Cowens in as a Bigs coach. Admittedly, Cowens seems to have lost his way in life. His post-Celtics career started out strong in Charlotte, but since then, he’s had somewhat of a leaden touch. Recently he sold his MVP trophy – what a comedown! First MVP ever to do that! That’s not the kind of thing one really wants to be remembered for.

    But Cowens was possibly the best little Big Man of all time. I know it’s fashionable to denigrate him in the Celtics universe these days, despite his two championships and his MVP, but he was an alltime great. And what he showed in Charlotte was an ability to coach other Little Bigs. Remember “hardball”? I would consider bringing him in on an informal basis to this Celtics team, perhaps, and maybe Silas too — the two guys seem to work well as a team, and Silas too was one of the alltime best little Bigs. Bass has shown signs of having potential as a Little Big, and Sully shows signs of having tremendous potential. Just being around a guy who is no bigger than they are, but who nevertheless carved out a legend for himself during arguably basketball’s golden era for Big Men, may do our Little Bigs some good.

    And if he and Silas could teach the guys some Hardball?

    • RedsLoveChild

      I`d love to see Cowens return! No disrespect to Hondo, Jo Jo, or Silas…but, “Big Red” WAS the Celtics in the `70`s! Cowens was “The Man”

      Problem is, I`m not sure Dave can teach “heart”. Playing with 100% effort at all times was the secret to his success.

      Also, not sure Rivers is “secure” enough to have a Hall Of Famer and Celtic legend on his coaching staff. Rivers likes being surrounded by quiet sub-servients. Dave is still very much an independent/free spirit.

      Also agree on much you said about Big Baby. I`d still trade him for Bass, but he does have a nose for the paint. The big problem Baby had here was that Boston {due largely to the atmosphere created by KG and Rivers} is a “kill or be killed” environment. They kept pushing him and testing him until he just lost interest, and tuned them out.

  • Jester00

    O rebounds are great and can be game changers

  • dk

    What kills me about the explanation “oh they don’t crash the boards on offense so they can get back and settle into their defense” but it doesn’t even seem like they’re doing that now. We keep hearing about their poor transition defense. So basically, they’re not boxing out or getting rebounds and their not getting back on defense….thats a problem.

  • Chris H

    I wish we had a healthy mid 20’s Center on the bench who could grab boards and clog up the paint. Oh wait…..we did….

  • Chris

    I still say we missed an opportunity with Andray Blatche. He has his haters, but the guy is averaging about 9-5 in 16 mins. I’d have definitely taken that from a young, athletic guy who just needed to get it together. Unfortunately, when Darko flees with good reason and Collins starts ending up on the bottom half of dunk posters, others will say the same.

  • 17rings

    You all forget that this same poor rebounding team made the ECF last year and was a win from the Finals.

    The bottom line is every team has their weaknesses.. and the C’s have sured up two of theirs from last year (bench scoring and free throw attempts.. we’re 3rd in the league in FTA per game!!!

    This is an improved team guys.. let’s at least get our legit starting lineup out there before all you Debbie Downers count them out.

    • Chris H

      Nobody is counting them out, just wondering why if you have new parts to address your weaknesses, why you wouldn’t use them.

      Comparing them to last year isn’t useful, unless every other team stood still, which they clearly haven’t.

      • 17rings

        I’m not in favor of small ball either.. but what new parts on this team would help rebounding?? Collins? Darko? Really? The people who play just need to do a better job boxing out (see 2nd half of Jazz game).

        And comparing them to last year is useful.. if you’re too stupid to figure out why i’ll explain it to you.. because last year we were just as terrible at rebounding and were still in the ECF. My point being.. just because a team rebounds poorly doesn’t mean they can’t win… plus they’ve improved in other areas… so how anyone can count them out already is beyond me (and I do see people counting them out.. not you.. but others).

        • Chris H

          I appreciate your insults…it really adds to the conversation. It always best to prove your point and settle our disagreement by assuming I’m stupid for having the gall to disagree with you.

          Boxing out IS important, I dont know where you get I’m arguing that point (but again, I’m stupid, so what do I know). But having 7 foot tall individuals, ALSO capable of boxing out, can’t HURT the rebound situation and most likely help to greatly improve it. Not to mention other benefits. None of those guys are Dwight Howard, but let’s not pretending sitting them is the greatest idea in the world either.

          • 17rings

            You’re welcome to disagree so long as what you back it up with isn’t ignorant.

            The only arguments I was making were 1.) Darko and Collins would not solve the rebounding problems (they could make it slightly better, but other things would become worse).

            2.) You called my comparison to last year not useful, when in fact, it is.

            Sorry if its insulting, but I think you’re stupid if you can’t see my point. I wasn’t saying other teams didn’t get better too.. i was saying a poor rebounding team can still be successful.

  • Jim

    I thought this Celtics team, contrary to expectatations, was actually younger.

  • Felix

    no rebounds no rings