Does Ray belong in the rafters? | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans
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Does Ray belong in the rafters?

As Ray Allen continues to flap his gums now that he is surrounded by the games biggest prima-donnas, one has to wonder if he is not only burning the bridge, but blowing the thing sky-high between he and Boston. The burns were bad enough that Ray opted to take less money to join the Celtics biggest rival of this generation, but as if that were not enough Ray has used every opportunity speaking with the media to blast Boston and his time there. With that in mind, one has to wonder whether Ray Allen now deserves to be in the rafters among the Celtics greats.

Think of the names in the rafters of the TD Garden,  Bill Russell, Larry Bird, John Havlicek… the best of the best that have ever worn the white and green. Some were lesser known such as Bill Sharman, Jim Loscutoff, or KC Jones but all held themselves to one universal standard of honor, Celtics Pride. What Celtics Pride is may vary based on who you ask, but the synopsis of every definition is to conduct oneself with integrity, to play your hardest, and to represent the Boston Celtics as a true professional organization. Living by this standard is exactly why the players and coaches that have been honored in the rafters are where they are. It is they, that are the measuring stick for determining who deserves such an honored tradition. There are a few players in this current generation of the Celtics that have a legitimate case that they belong or are well on their way, and to be blunt… Ray Allen isn’t one of them.

Ray Allen is a future Hall of Famer, anyone that tells you any differently is on some combination of drugs. He was great in Milwaukee, fantastic at times in Seattle and solid in Boston; there is no doubt that Ray Allen will still be good in Miami, it isn’t for a lack of talent that keeps Ray Allen from the rafters. Ray Allen clearly has not bought into the mantra of Celtics Pride both during and after his time in Boston. In recent days, Allen has spent every opportunity that he has been given with the media, to slam the Celtics and his former teammates. Allen claims that he was essentially forced out of Boston, that Boston made a business decision (despite the fact that Boston offered him double what Miami did). Allen has sworn off his former teammates and thrown them under the bus at times with his comments, and even his coach. If this is an example of conducting oneself with Celtics pride, I’d love to hear how.

During his time in Boston, everyone thought Ray Allen was the consummate professional; minded his own business, showed up to work early, and just did his job. We saw ruffles of a bit of an attitude from Ray here and there but never thought anything of it. It wasn’t until after he left the Celtics that we heard about what really went on behind the closed doors of the Celtics locker rooms. Allen was moody with some of his teammates, separating himself from his teammates at times, he allowed trade rumors to get to him instead of being a professional and understanding this is a business. (despite the fact that almost every Celtics player in the past 5 years has been involved in at least a few trade rumors) and most importantly, he despised taking a lesser role on the team, despite the fact that it was what was best for the team. This is the single biggest example of Anti-Celtics pride that I could think of.

Back in the 60s, for those that aren’t too in touch with Celtics history, there was a player by the name of Frank Ramsey. Ramsey, a Kentucky native, was an extremely talented guard and came to Boston with a great reputation after a solid college career. Coach Red Auerbach was forced in a predicament throughout Sharmans career. The Celtics had two Hall of Fame guards other than Ramsey during his tenure in Boston, KC Jones and Bill Sharman. Despite the fact that Ramsey deserved to be a starter, he took (and essentially created) the role of the Sixth Man, making his team better not by providing what he can in the starting five, rather coming off the bench.

Ramsey is honored in the rafters for this sacrifice and earned his way to the Basketball Hall of Fame in the meantime. The comparison here is fair because Ramsey took a lesser role in what was best for the team rather than allowing personal greed to stand in the way of winning. Ray Allen, had he learned from the book of Celtics Pride would have taken note of this sacrifice when Avery Bradley took the starting role at the Shooting Guard position in 2012. Instead we hear of Ray Allen feeling “unwanted” after being “benched”. In Allen’s eyes, it was being “benched” rather than doing whatever the team needed him to do in order to win. This selfish mentality lead him to the poor attitude that likely was a contributing factor in a rift between Allen and other teammates.

Allen made the choice to leave behind the Celtics, he let his emotions get in the way of doing what what right. He clearly didn’t do it for the money, since he took a pay cut to go to Miami, he didn’t do it for a chance at a ring because it could be said that while the Heat may be have the two best players between the two, the Celtics are clearly the deeper team and depth is what wins championships, and he sure as heck didn’t do it to be a part of the storied history of the Miami Heat. He did it to stick one to Boston, to stick it right in the cities craw. He snubbed not only his teammates, his coaches, and the organization as a whole but he has snubbed the fans. He did what he did to get back at the team you love, to intentionally hurt the players you love, and the coaches you love. As a fan that whole heartedly loves the Boston Celtics, I find no scenario where I ever cheer for Ray Allen again, nor where Ray Allen belongs in the rafters among the other Celtics Greats. Greats sacrifice much for the betterment of the team, what did Ray Allen sacrifice for your team?

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  • frickenWaaaltaaah

    Allow me to break it down one point at a time:

    1. No.
    2. No.
    3. Hell no.

    • Larry Legend

      Here’s the simple answer: No f—ing way.

  • No EFFING way!!!

    ‘Toine will be up there before Ray, and I doubt “Toine is holding his breath for that honor. If Ray get’s his # up there, it diminishes all the other guys.

  • Michael Erisman

    First, to think that the Celtics team of 2012/2013 belongs in the same breath as the Miami team in terms of depth is hysterical. Boston is two over the hill players on their last legs (Pierce and Garnett) a point guard as likely to be a cancer on the team as to pull it together, and definitely not a leader, and a bunch of random bench players. To think anyone can replace what Ray Allen did to opposing defences who had to spread their players from side to side opening up the middle, is to be a Boston fan (in other words so homered up on Boston fan crack as to lose all touch with reality).

    That said, no Ray Allen does not belong in the rafters in Boston. Neither does Kevin Garnett, unless they manage to win another championship.

    Ray Allen was more than just “great at times” in Seattle, he was great 100% of the time. I live in Seattle and watched every game he played here and he was the consumate superstar. I would gladly put him in the rafters here, he was that good.

    Ray Allen is a first ballet HOF player, will likely win 1-2 more rings with Miami, where he fits perfectly.

    His comments about Boston are simply the responses to the never ending bullshit we hear across the nation from misguided idiots that comprise Boston fans. I have rooted for the Celtics for two periods of time in my life.. When DJ came there and when Ray Allen came there. All other times I hate that team, and this year will enjoy watching them lose in the playoffs, if they manage to squeek in.

    • zippittyay

      step away from the bong….

    • CelticsKid34

      HAAHHHAHA your soooo drunk!!! for one, Ray allen couldn’t hope to be half the player Paul or KG are. two rondo should have been second in mvp votes because the Celtics couldn’t have taken the heat to game 7 without him or even win against Philly and he is the best pg in the league. three learn how to spell defense correctly. four what is the Heat’s bench again?… oh thats right OVER THE HILL SHOOTERS!!! five, random bench players?… former 6th man of the year winners Barbosa and Terry, top ten projected pick in the draft Sullinger, by far one of the most underrated centers in Wilcox, and a defensive juggernaut of a center linup???? pleeeeaassse kid dont make yourself look stupid! six we took your sorry heat to game seven with battered starters and no bench, now we come back 200% and dont have a chance?… AHAHAHA!!! the Jet is already proving to be more valuable to us than ray was in the last two years… next time you poke your empty head around here bring some facts!

      • lenitho dolce

        Mi amigo, you are the one to check your facts: last 2 years, “could’ha, should’ha, would’ha” Celtics don’t work fort the Heat. They own the Celtics: one Final, one Championship. Like ME stated, your Celtics are on a downhill versus the Heat( with 3 players still in their prime)

        • CelticsKid34

          hey can you make sense next time… i cant even argue because that didnt make any sense and had no traces of fact at all. i thought i got away from heat trolls when i unsuscribed from bleacher report… let the teams do the talking on opening day

    • Wil R

      lmao smh, youre definitely high

    • really?

      Hang his jersey in the rafters of a city that no longer has a team. Sounds brilliant to me…. go read a Sonics blog you dumb ass.

    • really?

      Also, “When DJ came there and when Ray Allen came there.”


      dumb ass

    • Drew

      This guy………Miami is deeper than Boston? Hahahaha

    • Chief

      Firstly KG is getting his number retired….period. He embodies Celtic pride, and would never jump ship to a rival to play for less money,and if he did he wouldn’t be bitching about how lousy the celtics treated him.
      And secondly yeah ray did spread the floor but couldn’t drive or create his own shot, oh and let’s not forget that he needed multiple screens to get open.
      Ray was good in Seattle but he should remember that he won a chip with the celtics and he should be thankful otherwise he would have been a good player that never won anything

      • Brad

        KG is the epitome of loyal. Will probably have his number retired by not just 1 but 2 teams. Ray Allen is lucky if the Bucks retire his number. Boston sure isn’t, Seattle doesn’t exist anymore & he won’t do anything jersey retirement worthy in Miami.

    • MRC

      You’re a dumb bitch & have no knowledge of the game, only a dumb bitch will say that Boston is gonna squeek in the playoffs when they probably have the deepest team in the league. I’ll tell you what, reserve a plane ticket to Miami, that way when the Heat get bounced out of the playoffs by this Celtics team that you hate so much, maybe you can squeek into the Heat’s locker room & start giving them blow jobs, & who knows, you might be able to lift their spirits up.

    • vivek NJ

      We appreciate idiots on the other side 🙂

    • Dude, if u watched “every game Ray played in Seattle” you’re the only one who did. Ray’s best years were in Milwaukee- he was banged up alot in Seattle. Anyways, your obviously bitter about loosing your Sonics that you’ve taken to spouting bullshit. Good luck getting another team up there- I’m sure Paul Allen will let that happen….

    • Richard

      are you stupid?

      Boston one the regular season match-ups 3-1, and tok Miami to a Game 7…. NO OTHER TEAM has done that… NOT ONE.

      Not to mention that the NBA always takes care of its babies in LeBron- so they pat him on the back and lift him up to help him win. How many times in the 7 game series did the refs fuck up?
      Basketball is a business and the refs took advantage of that so they could have a game 7 and generate more money.

      All that said, Miami is NOT better than boston (even with 3 prime players). Not even close.

  • dk

    Noway. Retiring a player’s number should signify how iconic a player was for that team and that the number would embody their greatness such that no other player should ever wear it. If anything, I think the team later on got a little too generous in retiring numbers of players who were good but not necessarily worthy of the honor. I personally do not believe Max, Reggie or DJ should have had their numbers retired. That being said, I always thought if the New Big 3 won 2+ titles PP,KG and RA numbers would have been retired. Assuming Ray stayed and they never won anymore, I still think you could have made an argument to retire KGs number for what he did for this franchise to bring it back to life, and PP but I don’t think Ray would have been worthy of the honor and it would have been awkward to retire 2 of 3 members. Now that Ray is gone, I think they retire #5 and #34.

  • Red’s Cigar

    Ray got pissy because of the key on fooling signing. They hated each other and had a long history. Rondo was closest person on the team to Dooling, no surprise rondo and ray had a falling out. Ray resented the fact that Danny and Doc brought in Keyon knowing their history. Basically rays a little bitch that holds grudges. Great shooter though.

  • Big George

    Ray belongs no more than Jerry Sichting as far as I am concerned.

  • Beantownfanatic2012

    Whose that douchebag talking up there! Rays a prima Donna and he fits right in with those bitches in south beach. Ray ain’t gonna win 1-2 more rings with Miami cause Miami ain’t winning this year. Hey moron do you know that in Rays contract that it says he can opt out after his first year with Miami??? What does that tell you?? He fucked up and he knows it and he really is making him self out to be an ass. He’s like the Ladanian Tomlinson of the NBA! He’s a chump

  • JLB

    100% agree, great read. #20 should be raised to the rafters of the Key Arena, if its still there. I’m sure the money raised from the ceremony could go towards a down payment for a new team.
    It must sting loosing your team and having to watch your former players like watching your kids play with their new daddy. Don’t hate on the Celtics like a every other weekend daddy.

    • JM18

      Wow. That’s deep. Lol

  • Arms

    Ray’s number being retired becomes an option only if the Celtics don’t win another ring in the Pierce-Garnett era (it glorifies what the second coming of the Big Three were able to do).

    You have to keep in mind one thing though: You can’t have Celtic Pride without loyalty. In the modern salary cap era, you can’t have loyalty.

    And Ainge is from this new school. Heck, Danny wanted to disband the old Big Three while Red said he would have kept em together because of loyalty. Chances are that even the most professional guys are gonna take it personally if they almost get traded a few times. Its understandable. You want these guys to play their hearts out for you, night-in-night-out, do UBUNTU and the Celtic way and all that, but in a heartbeat you’re shipping em to Memphis or wherever.

    Having said ALLL that, seeing Ray leave stung as much as seeing Perk get traded. And I hate hate seeing Ray’s jumpshot in a Heat uniform. Whichever way you play it, he killed his legacy by leaving money on the table and joining the Heat.

    Riley said he wanted Ray’s number up on the rafters eventually. I say let em have him. We got a decent pool of HOFers to raise banners and jerseys with.

  • Jeff

    I hope that’s a joke – no way in hell

  • O2

    It does not make sense to retire his number. As Doc said, we will let Ray do the talking. I think Ray is a good guy, but just did not fit with P2, KG, RR and Doc. Basketball wise, his defense was not good. I like our group now. I don’t understand why he thought his role changed. You think KG cares how many touches he gets? Goodness Ray, grow up.

  • RedsLoveChild

    #20 BELONGS in the rafters—-Larry Siegfried was an integral part of 5 Celtic championship teams from 1964-1969!!! More rings than any Celtic who has not been honored.

    He belongs up there as much as Sanders, Loscy, Ramsey, Nelson, etc.

    Two times he led the NBA in FT%…shot 85% from the line in his career…averaged 14 points per game coming off the bench over a 5 year period.

    Who is this “Ray” you speak of?

    • GreenCro


      • RedsLoveChild



    Ray Allen undoubtedly has a place in Celtics lore, but a place in the rafters is a designation for those with a place in Celtics legend.

    #20 has cemented his own fate. Will he get his jersey retired in Milwaukee? No. Seattle? LOL. Miami HA! Boston? Well, I think I’ve run out of expressions.

    He has personified individualism in the NBA. At every stop he has said what fans wanted to hear and at every junction he has operated in his own best interest. To put him next to #6, #3, #35, #33, #18 is asinine. Look, Bill Walton isnt in the rafters, Ray Walter Allen shouldnt be either.

  • Billy Paultz

    Of course not.

    In the Big Three era, we’ve seen exactly ONE player who complained about his touches and his shots and refused to buy into the team concept.

    Ray Allen NEVER embraced the Celtics philosophy right from the get-go when he had his caddy Donny Marshall talking about how he had been relegated to a spot-up shooter after handling his share of balls in Seattle.

    • yher

      Ungrateful.., unprofessional & self-destructive player….without rondo’s prolific phenomenal assist leader., he would not been to hit the mark among best 3 pt shooters in NBA history. He really deserved it as a bench player only….pathetic green-eyed monster..

  • Jp

    Sorry if I’m late here, but didn’t I read that Ainge offered Ray a “no-trade” clause with that $6M/yr contract?

  • O2

    I guess what’s best for his family is taking less money and uprooting his family. Wait, maybe this about Ray?


    First of all, great piece. Second of all, to answer your question. ABSOLUTELY NOT. The only thing he deserves is for everyone in Boston to pile up their No. 20 jerseys and burn them upon Judas’ return to TD Garden. Save retiring jerseys for those who were loyal and believed in Celtic Pride. #34, #9 and last but not certainly not least of all #5. No man in this new era believed more than him, so retiring KG is a definite, not even a ?

  • Art

    I hear Red laughing. That’s after all his cursing when Mr. Ego crossed over to the other side for less $$. Red saw a lot, but never that. The connection between Ego boy and the Green has been permanently severed. Let’s stop with the silly discussions.

  • JR99

    Nick — one question: Do you really think that DWade is, right now, a better player than anyone on the Celtics roster? Better than RR? KG? PP? I don’t. I think that today, it’s an open question whether he’s better than Avery Bradley!

    Lebron James is the best player alive, I’d agree. DWade is NOT the second-best player alive…. and it’s not close.

    Btw… Ray A is *not* getting his number in the rafters after all he’s said and done. Snowballs will form spontaneously in hell before that ever happens.

  • pdxcelt

    Is this even a serious debate? No and no. Like someone mentioned earlier, he deserves it like a Sichting or Wedman would.

  • Sheets

    Milt Palacio would get his number retired before that stiff. And what’s up with Heinsohn and Couz? they ok?

  • LAF

    wow..i’m a littled shocked by all the comments on this thread. what the hell has happened to

    as for retiring ray’s jersey, no. but not because i’m hurt, bitter and/or petty. had ray accepted danny’s offer and played two more years in green, yes. but a 5-year tenure is just not long enough. had he won two rings during those five years, however, i would consider retiring his jersey. but one title in five years? nah. just not enough.

  • Tyler

    The Oklahoma City Thunder will retire his number because he played for the Seattle Super Sonics. They are desperate to put anything in the rafters repping OKC.

    By the way Seattle needs to get an NBA team. Great city & fans that loved their NBA basketball that got screwed by an incompetent owner.

  • Tyler

    If Allen had gone to another team maybe, but he made the effort to take less money and declined the Celtics offer of a no trade clause for the rest of his career so that he could take less money and the chance of being traded by the Heat so he would have a chance to stick it to the Celtics. He has NOT earned the privilege of having his number retired as a Celtic. I’m sorry but Allen did not exactly play lights out in the 2008 playoffs. Pierce & KG were the anchors. Pierce on offense & KG on defense. Look back at the advanced metrics of the whole 2008 playoff run, Ray Allen struggled through most of the playoffs.

  • Pogmohone

    No,no,no,no. He is a future hall of famer who is in danger of tarnishing his carreer, reputation and achievements by not keeping his mouth shut. It seems as he gets older and his skills diminish he is looking for someone to blame rather than accepting it. Disappointing.

  • Nick Sannicandro

    Thats the biggest thing, people remember Ray as this clutch dude but really..look at his playoff numbers he had three big games that I can think of everything else we were all talking about Ray slumping, getting Ray going early, whether Ray was hurt, what was wrong with Ray…. he SUCKED in quite a few of our playoff games in his tenure here, sorry but three superb games hardly make up for a dozen horrid ones

    • RedsLoveChild

      Game 6 vs. LA in 2008 does NOT count…not when Ray hits 6 of his 7 three-pointers AFTER Boston had already built up 30 point lead!

      Ray nailing a buzzer-beater vs. Toronto or Charlotte in Dec….does NOT offset his 3-for-14 “brick-clinic” when we absolutely needed him the most {Game 7 vs. LA in 2010}.

  • Frank A

    Michael, something you don’t know about Ray,…. He will go ice cold in play offs, and not due to injury. The reason the Celtics almost didn’t make it to the finals in 2008 was because Ray couldn’t make a basket for his life in the first two rounds. We barely got by because of it. The reason we lost the 2010 finals was because after Ray set a record in game 2 with ten 3 pointers he shot like 20 percent the rest of the way, including 0 in game 7 and last year he sucked too

  • Nick Sannicandro

    Frank you are dead on there…as I said in my comment it seemed like every time the playoffs got going Ray was in a slump to start except for the Chicago series

    That chicago series is the lone series I think that Ray WASNT horrible for any extended period of time

  • Cwin

    If we were a loser team like the Bobcats with no one in the rafters then I would say sure, but we are the Celtics! Think about the elite company in the rafters! Ray was great, Ray contributed greatly to a title but he certainly didn’t belong there when he was here and he doesn’t belong there now that he’s with the Heat. Pierce definitely, KG definitely deserves a spot just for everything he brought to Boston and his loyalty. Rondo if he stays on the Celtics for his career will probably end up there. TOO MANY RETIRED NUMBERS! So no to Ray…

  • Marquita

    NO!!! His number should not be retired in Boston. He is definition of anti-Celtic.

  • Josh

    Michael Erisman is a jackass. that is all. and Ray Allen has ZERO chance of having his number retired here.

  • jim

    hang it in the sewers

    • Curt


  • I bleed green in L.A.

    Ray? Ray Allen? Jesus Shuttlesworth? Uh, no

  • Ralph

    There is no way a traitor can have his name anywhere in Boston, he played great for Boston but what he did is unforgivable. Garnett on the other hand deserves to have his name in the rafters.