My kneejerk reactions to the past, present and future | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans
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My kneejerk reactions to the past, present and future

RA

What to do with this Boston Celtics team. Blow it up? Tweak it?

As John mentioned earlier, the Celtics must get younger. But they must also get better.

I'm not thrilled with the idea of bringing back Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnettf for another run. That's not good enough to beat Miami and probably Chicago. While we can point to Rondo's injuries as a factor, the Big 3 were healthy just about all season. What are the chances of that happening next year?

When they were inconsistent during the regular season, we pointed to the "flip the switch" mentality we'd surely see in the playoffs. But the trio rarely put together stellar efforts on the same night in the playoffs.

What happened to this team's mental toughness? I thought their championship pedigree was going to help them win close games? I didn't see it. I think Ubuntu is a thing of the past.

Danny Ainge will not have much money to lure potential free-agents. Maybe the mid-level if Jermaine O'Neal retires. Maybe the bi-annual (if that's even part of the new CBA). He'll be forced to pick from the same pool of injury risks and aging stars. Danny would have to hit on every signing in order to build a bench that could support the Big 3. The odds of that happening are slim.

So what's the block-buster, ground shaking move up Danny's sleeve? Trading Rajon Rondo. He's the guy with the most value. Could he be shipped (with Jeff Green) to New Orleans for Chris Paul? Maybe. I'm, sure there would be other deals out there.

I'm not sour on Rondo. He's a tough bastard with a diverse skill set. But his limitations (i.e no jump shot) are killing the offense. Imagine how the floor would open up for Paul, Ray and KG if opposing defenses had to respect our point guard's shooting.

I'm not opposed to building around Rondo. But that means next year is a throw away. We'll be waiting for KG's $21 million to come off the books and see who the next franchise player will be.

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  • Hmm 21 million off the Books for the summer of 2012 plus what Ray makes as well !! If Pierce and KG can rub off on Jeff Green a little. 21 million plus more in a 2012 summer of free Agents D.Howard?? assuming hes not traded by then. Bostons Future Big 3 Rondo,Green,Howard with Pierce being that veteran there to help??? I can dream right lol.. And assuming Green will be back!!

  • Can’t forget this team was playing well first 4-5 months of the season. They were # 1 seed until injuries and the revamping of bench. The Big 3 taking on big min to allow time for new bench to learn the system and gel as a team too late in the season. Big 3 offer intangibles such as passing on veteren knowlege of game, leadership chemistry In locker room, playoff experience etc. to future young Celtic successers. I’d say give Big 3 another run with tweaking 2nd unit with younger players to reduce starter’s min. Rajon is a hold for another year. He has long summer to work on his jump shot, FTs. If you blow up the whole team now then it will be a another few years to become contenders and build that Championship DNA.
    Looking at all the things the team had to deal with the last 2 months of the regular season leaves you with all the what if the Bench was better, Rondo didn’t get injured, Shaq came back, #1 seed home court advantage etc. Not ready to give up on this team yet particualry if Doc is still willing to invest in this team too.

  • I know it’s early, but any chance of Kris Humphries in Boston? He averaged a double double last year and seems to be getting better and better as each season goes along. It would be nice to have a guy that consistently rebounds. Most importantly, he’s young. Could he be the new Glen Davis?
    I like his attitude, too. He’s not afraid to get physical.

  • GH

    I disagree that the Big 3 were healthy all year. It’s true they had no major injuries but they played way too many minutes for guys their age. Actually, I should include Rondo in that. The problem with this team’ was not age so much but that just about everything that could go wrong did. The key back up players were the ones who were actually injured all year long and that forced our stars, the older vets to play way to much instead of resting up for the playoffs, which worked so well last year. (wouldn’t it be great if we didn’t have to resign ourselves to a losing record if we wanted to let these guys heal up and get ready for a playoff run?).
    Just imagine if, somehow, they had been able to limit Garnet to 20 min. a game this year and had some reliable backups for Ray and Pierce and if D West had played more than a month or so. I think Miami would be crying in their locker room about now.

  • ugh.. you must be a heat/laker fan?

  • Yeah, you’re so right, I’m not a Celtics fan at all.
    We should keep BBD instead:
    1. overweight
    2. undersized
    3. no lift
    4. can’t rebound
    5. can’t block shots
    6. layups constantly blocked
    7. doesn’t want to be here.
    Sounds about right. Let’s keep him.

  • CP3 is owed $34m and has 2 years remaining with a player option after next season. But the Hornets are being bailed out by Stern, Inc.. Every owner is subsiding the franchise too, so maybe Wyc would get a discount? One of the smartest moves he and Danny made was to wrap up Rondo before any team could make him an offer he couldn’t refuse. So RR’s contract does have trade value, but you must get an elite PG in return and I doubt CP3 will be moved with the lockout looming large. Besides, he puts fannies in the seats for franchise in dire financial straits.
    It’s hard to imagine Doc coming back if RR was dealt. Let’s face it, coaches don’t leave championships on the table. Doc came back for this season and clearly he’s thought next season through already and beleives in his core 4. But is that even enough against the athletic monsters of the league who are now playing into their prime?
    This off season Danny will have to compensate for more than just size, but there’s no denying what Shaq meant to this team. The Celts were 22-4 when he played 21 minutes or more, and 15-3 when he played with the starters. Okay Danny underestimated Shaq’s injury, but he was clairvoyant on JO’s return.
    Still, size and length didn’t factor into this series, and the outcome would not have changed if Perk were part of the mosaic. His inside presence or screen setting ability would have not had much of an impact against a team like Miami who plays small. The Celtics are a good shooting team, but their down right average in points per possessions. They don’t have a true post up player, and they desperately need someone other than PP to create their own shot. Playoff basketball amplifies your weaknesses, and this team cannot score consistently against athletic teams who can close on the perimeter and make RR the shooter in the pick and roll game. So with that in mind…
    1- Have RR shoot 1000 free throws and 10-15ft shots in the morning, and another 2000 from 16-23ft this off season. Maybe then he’d be as devastating in the p/r game as the elite PG’s of his class.
    2- Give JG a training camp and define his role. If his potential unlocks, sign him long term (in season as Memphis did with Zebo).
    3- If Glen Davis really believes he’s starting material do him a favor for ol’ times sake by dealing him to his home town in a S/T for Carl Landry (unr) since both salaries match.
    4- Resign D. West to bi-annual deal, which gives him another chance at playing full season healthy and the option to test the market in 2012-13
    5- Target either Thaddeus Young (r), Battier (unr) or T. Prince (unr) with the MLE.
    6- Consider a S/T with Kristic, perhaps AB, or the Minn#2 (or the Clippers #1) for either Tiago Spilter (unr) or D. Jordan (unr) as your starting center.
    7- Use JO off the bench, and perhaps sign Jeff Foster at the vet. minimum for some much needed offensive rebounding.

  • Don’t agree about Doc being linked to Rondo at all. If anything, Rondo’s stubborn nature is a frustration to Rivers.
    Here’s the reality of the situation: Pierce, Garnett and Allen aren’t frontline scorers any more; they’re complementary players who we can not go forward with 4 on 5 offensively, which is life with Rondo.
    If you insist on keeping Rondo – and I don’t; I’m entirely down with making a run at Chris Paul or checking the Nets’ affection with DWill – then you MUST break up the Big 3 or the deterioration continues for another year.
    Perhaps Wyc’s good with passing on a year while we wait for Garnett’s contract to come off the books; I’m not. And I’m not about to let one tough performance from Rondo expunge the numerous holes in his game.

  • I do not mind going another year with the aging stars again. But now we have a hole at center and we really need some defensive specialists on the bench.
    We need to look again at guys like DeShawn Sims and Lasme (affordable) in the offseason and I wish he did not trade Semih Erdan. Keep the stars in for less minutes and have a defensive minded bench. Get back to the old D

  • we need Jimmer Fredette!!!!!!!!and 2nd round Greg Smith!!!!!!!!

  • I like the BBD for Landry trade. Beneficial and realistic.
    I don’t think we can wait til camp on Jeff Green. He’s worth risking a 2-year deal in the 6-7 mil range.
    D. Jordan is definitely coming up. However, I can’t see committing to him without first exploring the Dwight Howard option.

  • I’m willing to wait a year or even two in mediocrity for the benefit of the future. If we can get some pieces in place via trade before or during next season, great. If we have to wait, so be it. Some considerations for building around Rondo AND staying competitive now:
    Gallinari
    Howard
    Bogut
    Maggette
    B. Griffin
    Paul Millsap
    Marcus Camby
    Greg Oden
    JJ Hickson
    JaVale McGee
    Gallinari is available now and can play 3 positions to rest/insure Big3.
    Any possibility to get Howard would be worth trading anyone except Rondo.
    I don’t know why the Bucks would part with Bogut, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. After Howard and maybe Bynum, I’d consider him the next best C out there. Marc Gasol also, but Memphis is probably not letting him go.
    Maybe at some point next year the Bucks are willing to part with an oft-injured Bogut to also get rid of Maggette and take back KG’s expiring deal. Maggette would be a nice sub for Pierce or Allen, has the athleticism Rondo wants around him, and has size to match up with LeBron and Carmelo.
    The potential of Griffin coming to Boston is at least 2 years away. For some reason I still picture Pierce finishing his career with one year in LA as a Clipper. What better gift to give the franchise than Blake Griffin?
    Paul Millsap is still underappreciated. I have no theories about how or why he comes here, but I’d like someone to explore the option.
    Marcus Camby would help now, but I don’t see how the numbers work without giving up one of the the big3. Not worth it for Camby. Maybe he has one more year left for vet min in 2012/13.
    Greg Oden is worth the risk for bi-annual if that’s available.
    Looks like JJ Hickson and JaVale McGee are both free agents after next year. Hickson is a more realistic version of Blake Griffin. McGee is a nice option if we can’t get a top-tier center. As Perry pointed out, DeAndre Jordan is a nice prospect at center as well, I just don’t think the timing works well for us on him. He will get paid this summer (CBA pending) and we need to keep out options open for next summer.

  • Get us Howard! I dont care what u do, give up davis, green, kristic, draft pick, and get Howard!

  • Redsarmy, I disagree with the majority of that post. The Big three are simply not too old to win a title, it was the supporting cast that they had around him. I couldn’t quite understand whether your post was suggesting getting rid of the big 3 or just Rondo. If you were saying just Rondo, then I completely agree. If however, you were saying to trade the big 3, I just think it’s ridiculous. First of all, you did not factor in that there WILL be a lockout next season, thus the season will be very much shortened. If this is the case, which it probably will be, the Big 3 and their free agents that they sign will all have less games during the regular season and thus a greater chance of being healthy when the playoffs come around. The way you make it sound is that this team was incredible far from beating the heat, which I just can’t agree with. I still believe if they had a decent center like Shaq things would have been different. They would have done a LOT better on the boards, which would have made a big difference in this series. That was a matchup they could not afford to lose, and they did. Simply having a big body like Shaq there would have carved out space and limited the number of offensive rebounds for the heat, and possibly given the Celtics easy opportunities for points. Jermaine was active on the offensive glass, but it seemed like his wrist was too hurt for him to be strong with the rebound.
    I’m not convinced Rondo still has the value he had before, considering his lack of ability to step up during the playoffs because he can not hit a shot. I think the injury aspect was a little overblown. Yes, it certainly limited his ability to go to the hoop, but the Heat wouldn’t have guarded him anyway. We saw the exact same thing happen last year in Game 7 of the finals when the Lakers just didn’t guard him, and he was killing the Celtics offensively. I really hope Ainge can find a good deal for Rondo, because if he could use it to get either a bench scorer, Chris Paul or D Williams, or a decent big man, it would be great for this team. All you can hope for in basketball is to get a team out there that is a contender, and then you have to hope that they can play well enough to win it when it comes down to it. The big 3 are good enough to win it, they just need a little help at this point. I also think they have to add some shooting. Think about the year they won it all, they had Pierce, Allen, House, and Posey to consistently stretch the floor with at different points in the game, which could offset the lack of shooting that Rondo and Perkins gave them. This year, Pierce and Allen were the only consistent shooters. That’s not enough outside threats to keep the floor spaced when you have Rondo on the floor.
    As I said in another post, Rondo has no excuse for not being able to shoot. I don’t care if his hands are “too big”. I have tiny hands and was able to do it from practice, and it’s an insult to anyone who worked hard enough to be able to shoot to say that he “just can’t do it”. Anyone can do it when they get enough repetitions up. What the Celtics have with the big 3 is too special to give up. I think Ainge probably understands this. Looking forward to next year…

  • I vote you to be the GM

  • BTW–Coach Bo–Great post above. Couldn’t have said it any better. You can’t have Rondo and the Big 3 for those reasons, and I choose the big 3 over Rondo.

  • lol. celts just got bounced yesterday and you’re having a wet dream about chris humphries/mutt kardashian? seriously, wtf? fyi the celtics hand select players and let over-valued players (bb, david lee, etc) sign gross contracts to put up crazy numbers on sub shitty teams (nets, warriors, etc). for all i care bb can walk 🙂 he’s been solid [here] the past 2 yrs.. esp for a 2nd round pick on short money he got in shape and did his job. good for bb to earn his significant pay bump

  • i second your notion. lets bridge next year’s assets, last minute trades, draft picks and build a dynasty for dhoward/rondo. the celtics could fleece a playoff team next year and trade ray allen (perfect 6th man). do it danny!! hold your breath for a year (‘.’)

  • RR is a ball of frustration for sure, but I can pull you quotes where Doc refers to him as a coach on the floor and he’s publicly admitted acquiescing to RR during timeouts. But RR and one ancillary chip for CP3 or D. Will? I’m with you 100%, but I don’t see those respective teams trading their most marketable asset, and you must get equal value for RR. No one can say with absolute confidence, but KG is on record saying he’ll retire a Celtic, and quite possibly next season could be his last. PP has a legacy in Boston. Maybe in his twilight years he could retire a Clipper or Laker, and Ray indeed could be moved at the trade deadline. All three had great years and carried the team. It was the injury riddled bench who blew those first quarter leads.

  • I don’t know what D. Jordan’s value is but he’s one active dude around the rim who’s overshadowed by Blake.
    Kinda scared about LA dealing Bynum/Brown for Superman. History tells us the elite centers seem to wind up in purple and gold. Who do you foul first in a Celtic uniform? Rondo or Howard?
    It’ll be interesting to see if any team makes JG an offer. I doubt it will happen because of his choppy play and the CBA squeeze. So they could wait and sign him in mid season unless he’s used as a bargaining chip in some blockbuster trade. Never know with Danny, he’s full of surprises.

  • HAH! LOL

  • None of this is to downgrade Rondo’s talents. When Pierce, Garnett and Allen were younger, he was the perfect point for this club.
    There are two significant problems going forward as I see it: Rondo still is what he was four years ago – a distributor with very, very limited offensive skills whose defense is chronically overrated by Celtics Fan. The second is obvious: The Big 3 aren’t able to carry this club offensively on a consistent basis every night, and more critically, Pierce and Allen are slipping in their efforts to contain the more athletic wings in the East.
    Personally, I’d be pleasantly surprised if New Orleans or New Jersey is willing to move their points. But I think Ainge HAS to make those calls and put together as attractive a package as possible. Rondo’s a square peg in a round hole now as this group ages.

  • Yeah, the Celtics have done great job filling their roster with hand selected players. I mean, Shelden Williams, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Mark Blount, Mikki “I earn my paychecks” Moore, POB, Starbury, Troy Murphy – only the best of the best for this team.
    Doc’s not coming back to coach the Celtics if the Big 3 are out of the picture, which means we’re stuck with the same group a year older next year, which means there’s no money, which means there’s not a lot of options.
    Rebounding is effort. I’d like to see the Celtics get someone who willing crashes the boards, not stand around wait for the ball to land in his hands.
    You’re baseless personal attacks on me speak to your character as a human being. I didn’t know mentioning a player once qualified as a wet dream. Sounds like another one of your many personals problem. Get over yourself.

  • get a life nerd. your perception of reality is nonexistant. ever consider how this team is built w/max contracts? yeah mgmt’s been cuffed, but they have diligently done extensive homework to the draft and 2nd tier free agents; posey, eddie house, dwest, pj brown have been okay. you, chris humphries/mutt kardashion would be great besties 🙂

  • I think you’re more obsessed with your lame attempt at the kardashian reference. Wasn’t funny the first time.

  • Howard + Rondo would be the most devastating, offensively challenged duo in the history of the NBA.

  • I wouldn’t do it…
    …but the angle to explore if you wanted Chris Pual would be a three way where Westbrook goes to New Orleans, Chris Paul goes to Boston, and Rondo goes to OKC.
    Chris does too much scoring for New Orleans to be happy about trying to replace him with Rondo. Westbrook is a shoot first point guard. Rondo could play with his pal Perk and KD.

    I don’t think we’ll see a big Rondo based trade this summer though. This team will get at least one more run.
    Rondo hit a wall. It was partly injuries. It was partly that teams have adjusted to the current Rondo. It was partly that he played too aggressively and for too many minutes in the early half of the season.
    If Rondo was playing now like he did in the first few months of the season, this team would have gone all the way.
    Even if Rondo was still banged up, but had leveled up on his shooting and free throws, this team would have gone all the way. He didn’t need to become a different player like say a Ray Allen or anything…just kick it up a notch.

  • I like your ideas 2-7. No idea if Rondo will ever develop a jump shot no matter how much time you give him. He needs to hook up with Jason Kidd’s shooting coach since he was once awful with the J…

  • Also here’s one for Danny. Seriously, if somebody can get this to the man…
    Get with some MIT people and do some biomechanical engineering optimization for Rondo.
    That stuff made Usain Bolt the ‘fastest man alive.’
    They can scan his body dimensions, range of motion, etc, and then plug them into a computer and then do a lot of high powered computing and then discover Rondo’s optimal free throw form. He has long arms and big hands so it’s not going to be the same free throw form that most people are taught.
    Then you can do the same thing for his jump shot, or even other shots(3’s).
    Then you simply work with him to teach him his optimal form, his optimal motions. That’s what they did with Bolt…changed his stride length, how much he raised his knees every step, etc.
    There is already a paper out there on ‘the perfect free throw’ but it is optimized for a 6’6″ guy with more average body proportions.
    It’s too late to help Shaq, but you could plug in his body proportions and at least see what Shaq’s free throw form should have looked like and you know, solve that old mystery.
    Rondo is built more like a shorter Reggie Miller, so I wouldn’t be surprised if his optimal motions looked more like Reggie’s.
    Everyone knows Reggie Miller’s form is ‘weird’ etc but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he had found something pretty close to the optimal form/motions for his body.

  • The only thing that matters, really, is Rondo working on his shooting this summer. I’d like to see him try a Rick Barry diaper shot at the line. Whatever he does, he needs to take thousands of shots this summer. This kid could be one of the very best players in the league, but he MUST shoot better. All other considerations are far less important.

  • Diaper shot from the line (Rick Barry), hook shot (skyhook) from the post, and when shooting js, Rondo should normally shoot on the run.
    And just practice like hell, Rondo.

  • I think that’s just wrongheaded. Rondo has limitations, but he also has an incredible upside. This kid has the potential to the best player in the league. But I think we can all agree, he MUST learn to get the ball in the basket more consistently.

  • I mean wrong headed to think that we should trade Rondo for another pg

  • Let’s not forget that he got taken out by Wade

  • That’s the only thing that matters every summer. And he never, ever works on his shooting. His inability to score the basketball from the perimeter and foul line is inexcusable.
    I’ve got a better chance of being the best player in the association than Rondo does.
    WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN.
    Too thick-headed.