Thomsen: Blame the Big 3 | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans
Red's Army

Thomsen: Blame the Big 3

Paul pierce kg

We're complaining about a lot of things around here lately.  Rasheed Wallace is a disappointment… We've got a lot of injuries… the guys look disinterested.  There are those and a million more if you read through all the comments.  But SI's Ian Thomsen is taking a simpler approach:

But any issue that doesn't involve Garnett, Pierce and Allen is a decoy that isn't worth mentioning. If the complaint is that Rasheed Wallace
takes too many threes and earns too many T's, well, what do you expect?
He's a 35 year old who has been playing far too many minutes and too
large a role in place of Garnett.

For those who think
23-year-old Rondo can offset the difficulties of the Big Three, take a
look at the stats: The Celtics are asking too much of Rondo. He is
averaging almost as many shots as Allen and Pierce, and he is shooting
more often per game than Garnett. Which means that the Celtics have
turned into — and surely played Sunday as if they are — a perimeter

The hierarchy won't make sense unless Garnett regains
his legs, because at the moment he is an extended jump shooter who is
being outrebounded by Amare Stoudemire (who is averaging 8.2 per game, by the way).

Thomsen brings up the possibility of trading for someone like Kirk Hinrich as a way to take pressure off the Big 3. 

But the Celtics, as I've been saying, are already making a sort of deadline deal by getting Marquis Daniels back.  And I might even suggest… sigh… that Tony Allen is going to be a very big part of making this team better.

Yeah, I shuddered too.

But there was no doubt that Tony was a key factor in being aggressive in that impressive second quarter.  He defended Kobe Bryant pretty well and, aside from a couple of moments where he dribbled too much, he was a catalyst offensively. 

Let's face it.  He's quicker than Paul Pierce or Ray Allen right now.  Maybe Doc should re-think his rotation a little and stop playing Paul Pierce for the entire first quarter and give Tony Allen a few more minutes.  Or have him come in for Ray a little sooner.  As much as I've been on Doc Rivers' side… I don't like the way he manages minutes.  Only Kevin Garnett is significantly below his career minutes average ( 30.9 this season vs. 37.4 career).  Pierce (35.9 vs. 37.5) and Ray (36.6 vs. 37.2) are still getting way too many minutes.

And I know the response is "well, with all the injuries we need to play them more."  But the Celtics are struggling and losing… and Ray is struggling mightily.  I know he's in great shape, but still, it's too much.  It's time to look down your bench and come up with some creative solutions.

Thomsen is right… it all comes down to the Big 3.  Even Rondo's emergence won't change that.  The only thing that will is putting them in a position to perform at their best.  A fully healthy bench is one part… and a fully rested Big 3 is another.

Until both of those things happen, we're going to be in for a lot more disappointments around here.

Photo by Jim Rogash /Getty Images

Like this Article? Share it!

  • G4L

    He brings up a good point!

  • I disagree with him to an extent, i do agree its on the big 3, they are the ones not playing up to par, period, none of them are playing at a superstar level and they look old and injured… but how are they asking rondo to do to much when they wont even run the offense through him at the end of the game when hes dominated it throughout? they would rather isolate paul pierce and have rondo play to his weakness, when hes out best playmaker….so no we dont ask rondo to do too much, hes an all star and just signed a new contract..get a clue, they need him to actually do more at the end of games

  • TA played the game of his life i would have traded him after the first half
    tony while playing the game of his life STILL missed 3 or 4 layups where he couldnt finish, and had about five bad turnovers…not a guy i want to count on in the playoffs
    the question of the day is why when there is seemingly NO celtics fan that believes we are fine with the bench going forward would Danny believe otherwise?
    i think it comes down to 2 things, you either have to revamp your bench, or revamp your starting lineup, and that means utilizing you expiring contracts to exploit other teams in finacial difficulties
    you either have to look at trading scal ta eddie and JR for guys like hinrich, prince posey or someone else you believe can be effecticve off the bench OR you bite the bullet and try to trade ray for Caron Butler, or monte ellis, or whoever else you think could bolt your team back to the top
    right now, im of the opinion that we should revamp the bench, and we will be fine, but if we dont do something i wont be optimistic for long

  • Lex

    He is averaging almost as many shots as Allen and Pierce, and he is shooting more often per game than Garnett.

  • I was at the game and thought that the crowd (in my section anyway) just didn’t bring it. A couple of us tried getting a “Beat LA” chant going a few times and it wasn’t happening. The other thing that jumps out at me is the 50 points in the paint the Fakers had. WAY too many easy dunks, put-backs etc. You are not going to beat anyone, let alone a good team like the Fakers, giving up 50 big ones down low. I def don’t lay the blame on the 3 Amigos alone though-this team’s mantra is Ubuntu, which is based on taking care of one another. These guys need to sit down as a unit and figure out what they need to do to keep the intensity up and play 48 minutes of dedicated ball no matter WHO they are playing.

  • nick

    Heres some trades that I find interesting. These trades all go through on trade machine so they are doable. Ray,Scal,&Giddens to the Bullets for Caron Butler,Brendan Haywood, and Mike James.
    Ray to Warriors for Corey Maggette& Andris Biedrins
    Ray&Giddens 2 the Nets for Yi,Courtney Lee,Keyon Dooling&Bobby Simmons who would likely be waived (B4 u laugh at this one think about having rondo,lee,yi,perk,and baby. all under 24 ) Plus dooling is a great backup PG that we need
    Ray to Sac-town 4 Kevin Martin,Andres Nocioni, and excelent backup PG Sergio Rodriguez. This one might not work kuz I think Sacramento wants to actually get young talent back 4 K-Mart.
    Ray&Scal to the Rockets for T-Mac. Y the fuck not? Lets shake things up, expiring contract for expiring contract. T-Mac is still only 31 to Rays 34 and Tim Grover says Tmac is healthy.
    Ray&Scal to the Suns for Amare Stoudamire and Leandro Barbosa. 2 expiring contract go to Phoenix, but I’mwondering if they want to start over or if they would want more coming back for those 2 guys, who are both under contract for next season
    Ray to the sixers for Iguodala and Sam Dalembert
    Ray&Giddens to the Bulls for Luol Deng and Hinrich. These 2 bulls have alotta years on their contract and Chicago has hopes of getting Bosh Wade or Lebron even though those hopes are longshots, they will deff take the trade just to have a better shot this summer, this trade gives us size defense and depth that we dont have right now. Deng covers Lebrons, Kobes and Joe Johnsons of the world. Joe JOhnson scares me alot more than Kobe by the way.
    Ray,Scal,&Giddens to the Knicks for Al Harrington,NateRobinson,JordanHill,&Jared Jeffries. Donnie Walsh would eat his own child to get Jared Jeffries contract out of town. We will help them but in return we get their 1st round pick Hill who is 6’11 and Harrington and NATE BOTH OF WHOM CAN LIGHT IT UP

  • aaron

    question, why did shelden play so many early minutes and now hasnt played in GAMES?
    he was looking pretty decent as a back up???

  • aaron

    dude, do you get stoned and write this sh*t?

  • Filipe

    I’d agree to trade Ray for the Iggy/Dalembert combo, but that is pretty much the only realistic Ray Allen trade that makes sense. But front office would run way from which due to the huge financial burden involved, we’d be a lock for biggest 2010 payroll as KG, Paul, Iggy, Sammy, Rondo, Sheed and Perk would get 85m between them (so we are talking at a potential 100m payroll with the luxury tax going down not even Mark Cuban would sign that).

  • CFH

    I was wondering that about Shelden too. What happened?

  • Jacob Garde

    talking about trades, i ran one thru the trade machine and it works. its a 3 team trade.
    Ray goes to the Suns
    Sheed goes to Golden State
    Boston gets Stoudemire and Ellis.
    you could add JR or Walker and get speedy Claxton for the backup PG.

  • haha

    Stay away from the Joint…because you have some of the stupidest trades ever…

  • haha

    Whats with these dumb trades…you know that will never happen…why would warriors want trash for Ellis?…Think before you propose a trade…

  • nick

    ya…Y don’t we trade Shelden&Scal for Kevin Durant while we are at it. What an insane trade. Everyone on this sight just got a little dumber from this suggestion

  • NICK

    Out of all of them I actually like the bulls/nets one best. We need to get younger and quicker FAST!!

  • nick

    which of those trades is stupid you little asshole? Come up with a better one afer your done suckin your boyfriends dick you little faget. Get off this sight till u grow a brain bitch

  • thetitleisours

    Wish we had Leon Powe right about now…

  • jacob

    First, it was just an idea and you never know what will happen in the nba. If golden state signed Mikki Moore, they dont know what trash is. Their center is Ronny Turiaf, so they might be looking for someone like Sheed and they are looking to just get Ellis out of there and Sheed does have an impressive track record with winning.
    Second, you can’t even spell “yeah” or “why” correctly, so just chill. Everyone is just giving ideas during this rought spot, and apparently Danny is shopping Ray around.

  • FSantos33

    I had a nightmare last night Kobe hit a clutch shot with 7 seconds left to win the game.. OH F***! It happened? Yes it did. Sarcasm aside I agree with you about Rondo. Why Why Why Rondo didn’t run those pick n rolls and attack the rim in the 4th.. instead they gave to gimpy “Please call a foul for me” Pierce to go 1 on 5. Doc’ must have selective memory his mind is stuck in 2008 thinking it’s the PP from two years ago.
    Bottom line this Celtics team just isn’t good enough this year, period. If the last two loses to ORL and ATL (SWEPT) were not an illustration of mediocrity I don’t know what is.. losing to the Lakers (Sigh) was a final exclamation point to “The Celtics ain’t good enough” slogan. (Celtics record this month 6 – 8.) Numbers don’t lie. To me Ainge has to make a move either to revamp the bench or unplug Ray and roll the dice.

  • Double P Reppin the B

    I understand all the trade ideas but you have to realize teams are not going to agree for us to unload our shit for good young talent. We are in a bind here and I don’t see any real potential trades that would work for both sides. GS is not going to give up Ellis, and if they do then absolutely do it. Sixers are absolutely not giving up Iggy. and the suns aren’t taking an expiring contract for Amare, the only reason they trade him is for good talent back for the future, like we would want with Ray. and a Satellite trade for a bench player and our 9th and 10th man guys is not going to address the issues this team has. We are pretty stuck at the moment

  • When you go into the fourth with a sizable advantage, it’s up to your stars to put the game away. Danny, Doc, and the rest can’t will you to in, only put you in position to. Winning is the players job and as good as they are, they aren’t performing out there. The turnovers, the poor rebounding in the 4th, the lack of aggressiveness to the hole in the 4th are all symptoms.
    Some blogger suggested this last week, “hey guys, we PAY for these games.” I think is the gist.

  • i think if we do trade ray ray, a lot of those could be reasonable destinations, but here’s some of your trades that i would try and tweak and a couple of proposals of my own i would feel obligated to at least ask about if i was Danny
    1st – i would change the wizards deal to make it just ray for butler, miller and foye, mike james isnt the same player he once was and haywood would get lost behind sheed and perk on the depth chart
    2cd – Ray and Giddens to New York for David Lee, Jared Jeffries, and Al Harrington, like you said Walsh wants out of jeffries contract in the worst way, why not exploit that by getting their best player, besides Walsh knows that he is going to have to renounce the rights to Lee if he wants to go after 2 big name free agents
    3rd – this one is extremely outlandish, some out of the box thinking that likely has no chance of happening, but why not at least ask about it? Ray Perk Baby and 2011 1st rounder to Toronto for Bosh, Amir Johnson, Derozan, and Belinelli
    4th ray, scal eddie and tony to the sixers for brand iggy thad young and speights; if we could stomach brands contract we’d absolutely rape the sixers on this one, thad and speights are really high potential guys that would be great to have going into the future, and who knows maybe brand could turn it around here and help this team, the sixers would do this deal so fast your head would spin

  • ray stinks

    it’s uninterested. disinterested = unbiased.
    and to all of you boneheads who said tony allen is a walking turnover, fuck you. you’re all idiots. TA can play 10x better than ray allen. and he plays this thing called defense. ship ray out, extend and start TA.

  • Lakerhater

    Thanks, thats the funniest f*cking post I’ve ever read on Reds Army.

  • Lakerhater (FD)

    If the big three were say 25 years old I would agree but not in this case. Rondo said it best yesterday, you need energy to finish games. Doc is such a complete f*cking moron at managing minutes there ain’t much Ray, PP and KG have left inside of three minutes in the fourth. Look at the way Popovich manages a game then watch Doc. Pop calls time outs to slow another team’s run and let his older players catch a breather – Doc makes his team play through it. By the time the C’s stop the opponent’s enevitable 4th quarter scoring run, they have no gas left to pour one on themselves (except for Rondo)to put the game away. And Rondo can’t do it by himself. No really ruins, he can’t.
    Look at the way Doc manages minutes, he makes the big three go for long stretches without a timeout, its not just the number of minutes Doc, its the intensity of going 12 minutes straight without a breather (especially in the 4th).
    F*ck I needed to get that off my chest for 2 1/2 years, cause I just don’t think Doc will ever get how to manage older players. We can all complain Ray isn’t Ray anymore, Paul tries to do too much, Rondo isn’t getting his due, Sheed is a lazy f*ck, KG is physically broken…but this is still a team that can win it all. I lay the losses squarely where they belong – on Doc. Nice guy, but he needs to go. FIRE DOC.

  • Al

    Oh my god – I actually agree with u!!!
    This and more posting up from KG when/if he comes right – in fact even if he is right he needs to post up more…

  • Al

    not happy then?

  • Just go away

  • I see your point, and fully agree Doc absolutely has to stagger minutes better. I just don’t think that the fix is that straightforward. They are playing undermanned teams at times and getting out hustled.
    I may say, IN ADDITION to correcting minutes, the players need to get a chip on their shoulder and come out in the fourth hunting.

  • Lakerhater (FD)