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Great Debate: Which 10 to add to the “50 Greatest” list

RedsArmyAdmin August 11, 2009 Uncategorized 19 Comments

The Hoop Doctors has a great debate going on right now on the siteSince the NBA… at least as a brand name (explanation on the site)… turns 60 this year, which 10 players should be added to the "50 Greatest Players" list.

Here's the original listNow… you CAN'T pull anyone off the list.  We're only adding to it.  The Hoop Doctors lists the following as "no-brainers"

1) Dominique Wilkins
– 24.8 Career Scoring avg(12th all time), 9x All Star, 7x All NBA
Selection, 1x Scoring Champ, 10th all time points, 10th FG made, 16th
FT made, 1 of 6 players in NBA history to average 25+ pts for 10
consecutive seasons.

2) Allen Iverson
– 27.1 Career Scoring avg(5th all time), 10x All Star, 7x All NBA
Selection, 4x Scoring Champ, 1x MVP, 2x All Star MVP, 3x Steals Champ,
16th all time points, 23rd FG made, 10th FT made, 12th steals, 36th
assists, 1 of 6 players in NBA history to avg 25+ pts for 10 cons. yrs.

3) Tim Duncan
– 21.4 pts and 11.7 reb career averages, 11x All Star, 12x All NBA
Selection, 12x All NBA Defense, 2x MVP, 4x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP,
12th all time blocks, 28th rebounding, 40th points.

4) Kobe Bryant
– 25.1 Career Scoring avg(10th all time), 11x All Star, 11x All NBA
Selection, 9x All NBA Defense, 1x MVP, 2x Scoring Champ, 4x NBA
Champion, 3x All Star MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 17th all time points, 24th FG
made, 13th FT made, 32nd 3PT made.

5) Kevin Garnett
– 20.2 pts and 11.1 reb career averages, 12x All Star, 9x All NBA
Selection, 10x All NBA Defense, 1x MVP, 1x NBA Champion, 1x Defensive
Player of Year, 26th all time points, 22nd rebounds, 21st blocks

Ok, fair enough.  For some reason, I want to argue against Iverson… but I can't really come up with a good reason for him to not be on the list.  Would you consider them no-brainers?  Which others should be on the list? 

Other names mentioned on Hoop Doctors: Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Alex English.  I'll throw Elton Brand's name in the mix too.  He's got 20 pts 10 reb career averages.. which are good.  But he doesn't have that long a list of awards.  That's not his fault though.  Tim Duncan won all his awards.  I also think you might as well throw LeBron on there now.  I know you might say it's too soon… but it's really not.  Are you going to tell me he's not one of the 60 greatest players of all time right now?  You're nuts if you say he's not. 

And because we are who we are… I'm going to throw Paul Pierce's name out there. Here's how he stacks up:  21.9 pt, 6 reb, 3.8 assist career averages.  7x All Star, 4x All NBA selection, 1x NBA champion, 1x Finals MVP.

If they're throwing Alex English in there as one of the "debatable" players… then I think Pierce measures up nicely.

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  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5ebb21970c JD

    Reggie Miller? Most threes all time is nothing to scoff at, and he was clearly a great scorer as well.

  • bigmck

    Elton Brand does not belong in the mix.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5d5d11970c Tim (FD)

    Elton Brand???? Really?
    Dwayne Wade and Lebron should be up there. Pierce, Kidd, and maybe even Nash could be argued as well.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5d5d11970c Tim (FD)

    It’s rare…. but you’re right on this one.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5d5d11970c Tim (FD)

    I was going to say Reggie… but then I thought about how he is stocking that women and I decided not too…. But I guess you’re right.

  • Griff

    Elton Brand is not even close! 60 greatest ever?! Also, I hate to say this but the Human Highlight reel had his whole body of work set when they picked the first 50 and he got passed over. Is he really a no-brainer? Maybe he’s on there, but it’s a close shave because Jason Kidd and Reggie Miller need to be on there as well as Lebron James. He’d be in the 8-to-10 range for me but still in there.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5d5d11970c Tim (FD)

    Yeah, the more I look at this list, the less and less it makes sense….
    Tim Duncan and (as much as I friggen hate him) Kobe Bryant, are far ahead of Dominique and Iverson in my opinion. All of those guys should be on the list, but not in that order.
    Look I really, really hate Kobe Bryant… but how in the world is Allen Iverson ranked ahead of him?
    And Tim Duncan, 4 championships himself… one of the most consistent players of all-time…. how is Iverson and Dominique ahead of him?

  • Rj

    [Pick 5 from this list to add to the 5 already listed]
    Reggie Miller [most 3’s ever, will be second to Ray at some point]
    Lebron James [remember Shaq made the original 50 list after being in the league 2-3 years]
    Gary Payton [all around guard]
    Paul Pierce [will have his number retired for a storied franchise, finals mvp, will retire as scoring leader of celtics]
    Dirk Nowitzki [top 10 PF, if not then top 15]
    Steve Nash [2 mvps]
    Jason Kidd
    Ray Allen
    Mark Jackson

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f5d5d11970c Tim (FD)

    I was thinking about Dirk too…. I think if he won that championship in 2006 it would be an easier argument.

  • Rj

    I was thinking about Wade… but more full seasons played without injury at a high level will convince me he’s not just the 2000s version of Penny Hardaway

  • http://profile.typepad.com/redsarmy Red’s Army

    Hmmm… maybe I’m overrating Brand. I don’t know, though. I think for so long he was an underrated great player.
    I’m not sure they’re ranking those 5 in order, by the way. I think they’re just throwing names out there.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f65c932970c Mizzle

    At first I thought the Elton Brand remark was some kind of joke that flew over my head. I literally had to re-read that part a couple times. Elton Brand? Top 60 Players? OF ALL TIME?

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156f60396b970c ThatGuyOverTheOcean

    I’d say: Nash, Pierce, Kidd, Nowitzki (not that I like him that much, but he was MVP anyway), and Payton.

  • Steve

    I think Kidd and Payton are MUST-HAVES too. These are 2 of the 7 best PGs to have ever lived. Case closed.

  • Joe Somebody

    The Next five like you showed are easy (to me I think my first seven are no brainers) then it’s up for grabs between about 10-15 other people for the last few spots. Here’s mine:
    1.)Kobe Bryant
    2.)Tim Duncan
    3.)Dominique Wilkens(who should’ve been on the first one)
    4.)Bernard King(who should’ve been on the first one)
    5.)Kevin Garnett
    6.)Allen Iverson
    7.)Gary Payton
    8.)Jason Kidd
    9.)Dan Issel
    10.)Alonzo Mourning
    I went with who was the best players during their times, not necessarily with stats or winning.
    Here’s my just missed its(in no particular order you could almost take anyone and be right):
    Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Walt Bellamy, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Chris Mullin, Steve Nash, Aris Gillmore, Bob Lanier, Tracy McGrady(if he ever gets healthy again he was amazing for a five year stretch), Grant Hill(same as TMAC), Ray Allen, Mitch Richmond(Way underrated), Gail Goodrich, Spencer Haywood, Bob Mcadoo.
    Of course if I go like you and throw in LeBron James, then you’ve also got to put Dwayne Wade on the list(Who is just as good as James, there i said it) and then Mello gets added to my just missed it list.

  • PaulP34

    I just want to say one thing though about all this. I remember when the list came out in the 90’s and everyone said of the guys who were still playing, who will likely make the next list. And i bet looking back now that barely any of those names that were mentioned would be on that list now because for some reason in the late 90’s, a lot of the greats or second teer stars just vanished due to injuries or just fizzling out too soon. Here are my examples of that:
    Shawn Kemp, Anfernee Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, Larry Johnson, Vin Baker, Glenn Robinson, Cedric Ceballos, Jim Jackson, Steve Smith, Billy Owens, Derrick Coleman, Allan Houston, Isiah Rider, Christian Laettner, Tom Gugliotta.
    Now i know a handful of them weren’t going to ever make the list, but they were the stars or number twos in the mid 90’s and (I know this is a little off topic, but) I wonder if there was a steroid thing going on in basketball at the same time as in baseball and that’s why all these guys disappeard so quickly. I know it sounds like i’m accusing people, i’m not, i’m just throwing out the idea, because you’d have to be ignorant not to think that it existed in some way. These spikes in 94-95 especially (Look at Jim Jackson’s numbers)make me think that. And it may have altered the possible greats forever, is the overall point i’m getting to. Who would’ve thought back then that Larry Johnson and Penny Hardaway would’ve fizzled out like they did.

  • dom1020

    tim duncan = most underrated superstar. no im not a spurs fan.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156faf0b78970c Mauritz

    If 20/10 is criteria, Zach Randolph has 20/10 per 36 minutes over his career…
    On the serious side, the 5 “undebatables” are undebatable, as is probably 2-time MVP Steve Nash. Jason Kidd seems like an obvious choice as well.
    If Pierce is a candidate based upon Finals MVP merits, D-Wade has a lot better career averages and is an olympic champion. Ben Wallace is a four-time Defensive PotY, four-time all-star, five-times all-defenisve 1st team, and the 7th highest total rebound % all time. Then again, Dennis Rodman isn’t on the original list, so I guess truly great defense isn’t that valued. Speaking of which, shouldn’t Rodman be there?

  • http://profile.typepad.com/fishersmuscles Fisher’s Muscles

    1. Jason Kidd
    2. Reggie Miller
    3. Gary Payton
    4. LeBron James
    5. Dwyane Wade
    If it’s too early to put LeBron and Wade in, then I would replace then with Ray Allen and Vince Carter. Mark Jackson is another possibility.